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Road craft on motorways and dual carrageways in UK

Surprise the police haven't had a friendly chat already as undertaking is prosecuted as dangerous driving. Minimum of 1 year ban max 2 years in prison and option of unlimited fine.

What Knighterrant described is not 'undertaking' .

While I would advocate that it is a task undertaken by a funeral director in the course of his business ; the 'act of undertaking' is held to be moving to the left to pass a vehicle in front , passing said vehicle , then moving back over to the right to resume your original position on the road - effectively a mirror image overtake ; merely continuing at a constant speed past a slower vehicle which was wrongly and needlessly driving in a lane further to the right does not constitute this .
 
Another of their tricks is to slam their brakes on in response to your indignant flashes then proceed at a dawdle in the outer lane. :wallbash:
Or a recent reaction I found twice in Cornwall last week was to eventually let you past then speed up and follow with their lights flashing :wallbash:

Rear bumper limpets can be dealt with by repeatedly washing your windscreen .
 
When you get to court on charges related to undertaking you'd probably be better off not mentioning to the Magistrate that you were flashing your lights and blaring you horn as you did so.

Audible and visible warning signals are part of the System of Car Control and accepted practice in Advanced Driving , as taught by the police colleges .
 
Nowadays many autobahns do have speed limits.

Even the 'unrestricted' sections have an 'advisory' limit of 130 Kph and speeds in excess of this will be taken into consideration in the event of a mishap ( Unfall ) .

The ' Nicht Schneller als 130 ' signs are everywhere .
 
Even the 'unrestricted' sections have an 'advisory' limit of 130 Kph and speeds in excess of this will be taken into consideration in the event of a mishap ( Unfall ) .

The ' Nicht Schneller als 130 ' signs are everywhere .

My understanding is that the only truly unrestricted section is North from Hamburg.


Which is really a bit far for a Sunday afternoon blast...
 
It has been five years since I was last over , and closer to twenty since I lived and spent significant time there , so may well have changed a bit .
 
Audible and visible warning signals are part of the System of Car Control and accepted practice in Advanced Driving , as taught by the police colleges .

And would be interpreted by most other road users (and magistrates) as belligerent and aggressive driving.
 
And would be mis-interpreted by most other road users (and magistrates) as belligerent and aggressive driving.

Said mags ( who are normally lay people and not legally qualified , nor qualified in driving matters ) would be required to take proper legal advice from qualified court officers , and due cognisance from irrefutable publications such as Roadcraft and RTA , as well as testimony from expert witnesses ; otherwise they would risk their findings being overturned on appeal .
 
Said mags ( who are normally lay people and not legally qualified , nor qualified in driving matters ) would be required to take proper legal advice from qualified court officers , and due cognisance from irrefutable publications such as Roadcraft and RTA , as well as testimony from expert witnesses ; otherwise they would risk their findings being overturned on appeal .

If you feel that you have to blast your horn and flash your lights as a warning when you carry out a manoeuvre then you are doing something risky that should probably be avoided if at all possible.

Whilst lane-hoggers can be annoying and frustrating that isn't a reason to join them in a stupidity contest that could have dire consequences.
 
I never said at any point that I do .

However , the visible/audible warning comes into the system at feature five and should always be considered before negotiating a hazard . It may take the form of a 'friendly toot' for the benefit of a pedestrian who may not have seen you just before you make a turn or pass a stationary vehicle ; equally , it could be a headlamp flash given at night before rounding a bend or crossing a hill crest to signal your presence to other road users .

Use of audible or visible warnings are in no way linked with aggression and tend to indicate thoughtful consideration rather than the opposite .

Quite contrary to what you say in your first paragraph , FAILURE to give warning of your presence where it would be either helpful or required could be considered negligent and may make you culpable in certain circumstances .
 
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However , the visible/audible warning comes into the system at feature five and should always be considered before negotiating a hazard . It may take the form of a 'friendly toot' for the benefit of a pedestrian who may not have seen you just before you make a turn or pass a stationary vehicle ; equally , it could be a headlamp flash given at night before rounding a bend or crossing a hill crest to signal your presence to other road users .

But these are not scenarios that are being discussed. We are talking about undertaking (or passing on the inside if you prefer) which is potentially dangerous and almost certainly avoidable with a bit of patience.

Use of audible or visible warnings are in no way linked with aggression and tend to indicate thoughtful consideration rather than the opposite .

They would be likely to be seen as aggressive and provocative. If I saw someone sitting in the middle lane I'd think "What a ****". If I then saw someone undertaking them with horn blaring and lights flashing I'd think "And there's another one." I would give both an equally wide berth.

Quite contrary to what you say in your first paragraph , FAILURE to give warning of your presence where it would be either helpful or required could be considered negligent and may make you culpable in certain circumstances .

But those circumstances do not include undertaking because you lost patience with another driver's poor lane discipline and allowed that to compromise your own driving.
 
I have never understood why undertaking is dangerous. Don't you have to take equal care whether changing lanes to the right or left...including making sure you aren't about to bang into someone?
 
I have never understood why undertaking is dangerous. Don't you have to take equal care whether changing lanes to the right or left...including making sure you aren't about to bang into someone?

I always take the view that someone dozing in a lane where they shouldn't be has low standards of driving in general and of lane discipline in particular.

They are therefore likely to move back to the nearside lane (probably without using their mirror or indicator) when they finally wake up and they may also be panicked into doing so by a car approaching from behind in their lane that is sounding it's horn and flashing its lights.
 
But these are not scenarios that are being discussed. We are talking about undertaking (or passing on the inside if you prefer) which is potentially dangerous and almost certainly avoidable with a bit of patience.

I was responding to your statement above when you said

"If you feel that you have to blast your horn and flash your lights as a warning when you carry out a manoeuvre then you are doing something risky that should probably be avoided if at all possible."

which covers pretty much any instance of using audible/visible warnings .



They would be likely to be seen as aggressive and provocative. If I saw someone sitting in the middle lane I'd think "What a ****". If I then saw someone undertaking them with horn blaring and lights flashing I'd think "And there's another one." I would give both an equally wide berth.

That might well be the case , but it is perfectly possible , and actually normal , to give advance warning of your approach without BLARING the horn and a single or double flash of the headlamps is in no way aggressive ( it is taught in response driving and also quite normal on continental roads , the problem is with the mindset of some UK drivers who take exception to it , despite it furthermore being taught in basic driving instruction and even being in the Highway Code ) . Whether passing on the left or on the right , the same warnings should be considered as appropriate .

As for the bit I highlighted above - I tend not to bother being judgemental about other drivers these days ; it is much easier and less stressful just to let them get on with their day and get on with yours without getting upset at them .



But those circumstances do not include undertaking because you lost patience with another driver's poor lane discipline and allowed that to compromise your own driving.

Again , just choosing to continue past a slower driver who chooses to drive in a lane further to the right does not infer any annoyance , impatience or aggression ; it is simply a more efficient way to drive : I quite often find myself driving along the nearside lane of the M8 or M74 , being in no particular hurry and able to make satisfactory progress there , perhaps sitting at 50 or 60 .

It is not unusual to find other drivers staying in lanes two or three at lower speeds than I am travelling at , my options therefore are -

1) to slow to their speed and remain behind them ,

2) in the case of lane two dwellers to move over two lanes , pass them in lane three ( perhaps having to take account of significantly faster traffic in that lane ) then return to lane one , or

3) just to carry on in lane one and pass them on the left ( I don't often give horn warnings or headlamp flashes , but just on occasion I might for whatever reason ) .

With lane three dwellers , option 2 does not exist but you do have an empty lane between you and then ; with the lane two dwellers you would normally have the option of using the hard shoulder to avoid them if they suddenly decide to move over .

A lot of people do not bother to use lane one of the sections of motorway I travel on my commute because it becomes an exit lane at various points with only the two right hand lanes continuing - yet these people will sit in lane two five miles before lane one closes !
 
I always take the view that someone dozing in a lane where they shouldn't be has low standards of driving in general and of lane discipline in particular.

They are therefore likely to move back to the nearside lane (probably without using their mirror or indicator) when they finally wake up and they may also be panicked into doing so by a car approaching from behind in their lane that is sounding it's horn and flashing its lights.


The last bit is usually down to timing and observation - give your warning of approach in sufficient time for them to react and watch for their reaction before proceeding .
 

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