S-class advice

[Spinal]

Ever since my first "drive" at 14 in my dad's s-class, I've always wanted one... It's one of my dream cars really... Now with the price of fuel soaring and taxes going up just as much, older s-classes seem to be cheaper and cheaper...

I saw a 1993 S320 for just over a grand, with full MBSH... the only defects I could find were some rust bubbles on the arches that hadn't burst yet.

So, here are my questions;
- How long is merc's rust warranty? Is it still 30 years?

- Is it worth buying a car with rusted arches and then waiting the 6-months period and getting them fixed on warranty?

- If not, how much would fixing the arches cost?

- Although I would love a 6-litre beast, I'm worried that even as a Sunday car (which is what the s-class would be) it would get expensive... Does anyone know the MPG figures of the 6l model?

- Is the 320 underpowered? Which engine would you recommend?

- Other than full SH, what should I look out for? (both positive and negative)

- Has anyone ever used the RAC inspection? is it worth it?

- Finally, what milage do these cars start throwing fits at? Being a student, I'm looking at fairly high mileage vehicles by most standards (100K/120K)... Do they last this long?


Thanks in advance, I will probably need a wait a few months to get one (just realized I have 4 modules to pay for before December... but I can still dream,... and save )

Michele

 

[Diesel Benz]

I've never owned a W140, so better to wait for other comments but don't expect the rust on wheel arches being paid by warranty. The rust warranty is for rust from inside out, not when stone chips have made the steel starting to rust.

An S320 should be powerful enough for ordinary driving. After all, it does better than a W202 with the smallest engine it can have. It isn't any S65AMG or SLR.

W140 is still reasonably simple by mechanics and electronics but age brings easily a lot of repair work.

 

[umedc]

hi
i had w140 s320 nice car but i think it under power you better of wtih s500 i got s55 now great car can still get 27mpg which what i got when i had s320 if you can long wheel base better still i always had long wheel base,

 

[robert.saunders]

Guido had a W140 I think, hopefully he'll add his thoughts

 

[IanA2]

Isn't the rust thing post '98?

 

[BlackC55]

The 320 in the 140 is a little sluggish. It is best to go for the 500. It is a much better engine.

 

[Spinal]

I just saw a pillarless S600 on eBay.... pretty.... very pretty... I think I might need to wait and see if I get that bonus I was promised

 

[fuzzer]

on a car of that vintage im sure the rust warranty is 6 years.

 

[W210 Fan]

just going to the W220 for a minute, I was told that the best chassis/engine combo was the S430 as the S320 was a little underpowered, given that the W140 is a bit lighter would the best engine not be the S420, I know the W119 5.0 is a corker (its in the `89 sauber) but being as spinal is a student would the 4.2 not yield better MPG, I suppose we are only talking 1/2 MPG on a car driven a few miles on a sunday so the yearly difference would be minimal,

Also spinal I remember in a thread your an engineer? then the rust on the arches should not be a problem, the prep could be done by your good self then just get the local shop to dust them over, or try yourself as its the right time of year to spray, results would not be as good but with some polishing over the finished work it would not be that easy to spot, I only say this as it cost me £300 to get my arches done on the E55 (I couldnt be bothered to wait for a decision from merc,) which will be a large percentage of the price of the car you are looking to buy...

 

[Spinal]

Also spinal I remember in a thread your an engineer? then the rust on the arches should not be a problem, the prep could be done by your good self then just get the local shop to dust them over, or try yourself as its the right time of year to spray, results would not be as good but with some polishing over the finished work it would not be that easy to spot, I only say this as it cost me £300 to get my arches done on the E55 (I couldnt be bothered to wait for a decision from merc,) which will be a large percentage of the price of the car you are looking to buy...

I have a BEng in computer science, so I do fancy myself an engineer... Not great at spraying though! That said, last time I tried spraying a piece of my motorbike fairing the job seemed acceptable (took me something like 3 months of sanding/priming though!)

Let's see, if I get the bonus I'm hoping to get it might mean a pillarless s-class If not, it might mean a new job (anyone interested in a part-time student a few months away from getting a masters in IT security from Oxford? )

Michele
(kidding most of the time )

 

[W210 Fan]

The point I was making is that you have an engineers brain, you can tell by the language you use and your logic in discussions, you will practice, you may fail, but you will learn, therefore removing some rust will be childs play, having said that bodywork is one of the mechanical/art cross overs.

Its probably best to find exactly the car your looking for though in the condition you want, my arguement always is it actually cheaper to pay a bit more, it goes something like this;

If your car needs work and you look at how long it would take you to spray the car in hours, look at how much you could have earnt in that time (potential loss of earnings) then how much you would pay somebody to do it for you plus a bit for messing around (dropping cars off, lifts from mates/trains, upsetting the boss by leaving early etc) then look at how much extra the right car is, I use this equation when pricing things up and it works for me, but I expect to have people pick holes in my logic...

 

[MBManInKen]

I saw a 1993 S320 for just over a grand, with full MBSH... the only defects I could find were some rust bubbles on the arches that hadn't burst yet.

1993 is pre facelift. To be honest, the facelifted models 1996 onwards would have my preference (things like the climate control are a lot more modern on the 1996 and later models and you'll be able to get them with ESP too. Don't underestimate the big improvement that is ESP on these cars over the older ASR.

If you get a 1997 model, it will have speedtronic in addition to CC and from 1998 they came with BAS.

As others have said, a 320 is rather underpowered for these cars. The W140 is big and heavy and you really want an S420 or even better S500. The 32-valve S500 engine is a great one, although a lot less economic with fuel than the W220 (see also my last comment). You really want a V8 in a W140 s-class, especially the LWB models.

So, here are my questions;
- How long is merc's rust warranty? Is it still 30 years?

Not on that generation s-class. Their rust warranty has now long run out and I'm pretty sure you can forget any hopes of getting goodwill repairs for any rust on them.

- Although I would love a 6-litre beast, I'm worried that even as a Sunday car (which is what the s-class would be) it would get expensive... Does anyone know the MPG figures of the 6l model?

I don't have the figures at hand here at work, but the 12 cylinder's fuel economy is appalling. I have a brochure at home so can look the official numbers up for you later, but they will be shocking. Also, the V12 is a completely different beast than the V8s and knowledge about and real world experience with the V12 amongst garages etc is a lot less compared to the V8. I'd personally avoid the V12 like the plague.

- Other than full SH, what should I look out for? (both positive and negative)

Whatever you do, make sure everything, and I mean everything, works perfectly. Anything is expensive to repair on these cars. The gearbox and suspension must behave perfectly, otherwise chances are that you'll look at a huge bill.

They are quite reliable cars and extremely comfortable to drive, provided they have been kept in prime condition. Many W140s get in the hands of people who can't/won't really cough up the money needed to keep them in excellent condition and when they start to deteriorate as a result, they become a massive money pit. But get a good one and you'll enjoy every second of driving it (well, if you get at least a V8 that is ).

- Has anyone ever used the RAC inspection? is it worth it?

Definitely worth it on such complex cars. And these are actually, even at modern standards, pretty complex cars. They already are drive by wire cars with a central network and loaded with expensive electronics. Certainly worth getting a full detailed inspection done on them before parting with money.

- Finally, what milage do these cars start throwing fits at? Being a student, I'm looking at fairly high mileage vehicles by most standards (100K/120K)... Do they last this long?

My cam chain failed at less than 100K miles, although one would hope this is not the norm. It failed without any warning noises or any other indication too . But in general, if well maintained, these engines should last a lot past 100K miles.[/quote]

just going to the W220 for a minute, I was told that the best chassis/engine combo was the S430 as the S320 was a little underpowered

For a W220 I would definitely disagree. On the S500 in the W220 you can get ZAS, which does make a noticeable difference in fuel consumption. I easily get 32mpg out of mine. I think the best possible engine in a W220 is the S500 .

given that the W140 is a bit lighter would the best engine not be the S420

Noooo, the W140 is significantly heavier than the W220! The s-class went through quite a diet when transitioning from the W140 to the W220. I'd definitely go for a S500, but it does come with quite high fuel consumption compared to both the 320 or 280 and even to a W220 5L (even more so if that one has ZAS). Similarly, the 420 W140 uses quite a bit more fuel than the S430 W220.

 

[st4]

Would you definitely buy the S class if they did a V12 lane?

 

[W210 Fan]

On the S500 in the W220 you can get ZAS,

You CAN get ZAS, according to wikipedia that engine technology debuted on the V12 in 2001 which is some 3 years after the W220 was released, that is of course wikipedia and I would take your knowledge over theirs Guido...

but then I still stand by my original statement as my car is a `99, which means my road tax is a tiny £185, to get the ZAS you would have to go 01+, then pay about £400 road tax, would you make the £225 fuel saving + extra depreciation as they are less desirable than the pre 01 currently every year if it was only driven as a sunday car?

We have strolled down tangeant boulevard anyway as the car in question is a W140, but any news on when ZAS was rolled out on the W220 would be greatly recieved if anybody has any,

 

[Spinal]

I don't have the figures at hand here at work, but the 12 cylinder's fuel economy is appalling. I have a brochure at home so can look the official numbers up for you later, but they will be shocking. Also, the V12 is a completely different beast than the V8s and knowledge about and real world experience with the V12 amongst garages etc is a lot less compared to the V8. I'd personally avoid the V12 like the plague.

Is the extra hassle of a V12 really that bad? I mean, if I'm going to fool around, I might as well do so on 12 pistons

 

[MBManInKen]

You CAN get ZAS, according to wikipedia that engine technology debuted on the V12 in 2001 which is some 3 years after the W220 was released, that is of course wikipedia and I would take your knowledge over theirs Guido...

ZAS was definitely available at or very shortly after the launch of the W220. I have a 99 brochure at home that shows it as being available then. The wikipedia article does not cite any actual source for its 2001 date.

but then I still stand by my original statement as my car is a `99, which means my road tax is a tiny £185, to get the ZAS you would have to go 01+, then pay about £400 road tax, would you make the £225 fuel saving + extra depreciation as they are less desirable than the pre 01 currently every year if it was only driven as a sunday car?

You'll be able to get a pre 2001 S500 with ZAS . But if the argument is purely money-wise, than of course the smaller the engine the cheaper it will be. I was merely stating that the "best" choice (compromise) of engine in a W220 is a S500. The reason I would prefer it any time over a 430 is that the 500 has better performance over only very small increased fuel usage and if you then get the ZAS version that small fuel disadvantage disappears too.

 

[MBManInKen]

Is the extra hassle of a V12 really that bad? I mean, if I'm going to fool around, I might as well do so on 12 pistons

Personally, I'd say yes it's not worth the quite significant extra cost, increased complexity and potential servicing issues, but of course that is a personal view.

 

[Diesel Benz]

You CAN get ZAS, according to wikipedia that engine technology debuted on the V12 in 2001 which is some 3 years after the W220 was released, that is of course wikipedia and I would take your knowledge over theirs Guido...

Are you referring to this wiki?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Cylinder_Control

The info is very US centric, like the W221 "debut 2007", meaning the body style that started selling 2005 in Europe and 2006 in the US. I would rate multiple experts at this forum higher than this wiki (even it it isn't generally bad at all).

 

[glojo]

If your car needs work and you look at how long it would take you to spray the car in hours, look at how much you could have earnt in that time (potential loss of earnings) then how much you would pay somebody to do it for you plus a bit for messing around (dropping cars off, lifts from mates/trains, upsetting the boss by leaving early etc) then look at how much extra the right car is, I use this equation when pricing things up and it works for me, but I expect to have people pick holes in my logic...

Excellent post that offers great advice but I would just like to suggest that by attempting the repair on an older car then there is huge satisfaction in doingit yourself.

Life is one big learning curve and with all things..... Practice makes perfect. W210 Fan's advice is spot on and it may well be much cheaper to get someone else to do the work, but if you have a go, then it's another notch on the CV of life.

S-class. What a beautiful car. Do they make an estate?

 

[IanA2]

What you want is a very nice 420SE