Section 59

[GRAV888]

I've just got a section 59 warning.
I took my motorcross bike (road legal) to the sea wall today. there were about 30 of us down there. We are miles away from anyone, but when we (my group of 4) came back to my van, the police were there and gave us all warnings.
When I asked the female officer what for, she told me for making the cows moo.
I said, sorry, but that's what cows do.
You know, cows go moo.
She told me that they did not unless they were scared.
Since the cows were nowhere near we were, I asked her if the cows should go woof instead.
The male PC thought this was funny, but the miserable cow (no pun intended) took my name and address.

Question. I have looked briefly at section 59 on google and it says you have to be causing a nuisance to the public AND driving without due care. Are cows now classed as the public?

 

[splang]

did you get her collar number? I would probably have a quick chat with her inspector...You have the right to speak to someone of Inspector rank or higher if you wish to..

 

[GRAV888]

No, but I remember the male one.

 

[pammy]

seems a tad harsh - but I'll ask his lordship later when he's finished scraping bikers up off the road - he's had three today!! Luckily all survived. But he knows about Section 59.

x

 

[edthedead]

She should have written on the back of your copy exactly what you are meant to have done, and who witnessed it (including her collar number and name)... I very much doubt she wrote 'making the cows go moo'!!!

 

[xpc316e]

Who says you have a right to speak to an Inspector? You have no such 'right' whatsoever - I suspect that if you try to enforce such a 'right', the next person you'll be speaking to will be the custody Sgt.

 

[GRAV888]

She should have written on the back of your copy exactly what you are meant to have done, and who witnessed it (including her collar number and name)... I very much doubt she wrote 'making the cows go moo'!!!

She never gave us anything.
Just gave us a rollocking and took names, addresses and date of birth.
She said we would be receiving a letter in the post.
She also said, that at 38, I should know better.
She was fresh out of college I think. Not a bad rear though

 

[pipmk]

civil rights

Who says you have a right to speak to an Inspector? You have no such 'right' whatsoever - I suspect that if you try to enforce such a 'right', the next person you'll be speaking to will be the custody Sgt.

I suggest expc316e get an up to date copy of Moriartys police law and reads it. To my knowledge asking to speak to an Inspector is not yet grounds for arrest, no matter how many powers this bunch of idiots have given to the unemployable bunch of bully boy morons who now seem to have taken over the police "service".
They even refer to the public as civilians,only members of the Armed services are non civilians,the police are by definition "civilians in uniform" and public servants, not masters.

 

[splang]

Who says you have a right to speak to an Inspector? You have no such 'right' whatsoever - I suspect that if you try to enforce such a 'right', the next person you'll be speaking to will be the custody Sgt.

Hmm, hopefully the police would respond with more professionalism than that.

Anyhow :

In Person

Attend at any police station and ask to speak with the Duty Inspector. The Duty Inspector may take details of your complaint and on some occasions the Duty Inspector may take a full statement. On other occasions he may take brief details and pass these on to the relevant Discipline and Complaints Department for the force complained about, who will contact you with a view to obtaining a detailed Statement.

If you decide that you want to register a complaint you can do so by the following means;

You may call personally into any police station and ask to speak to the senior officer on duty. This is normally the duty inspector however if an inspector is not available ask to speak to the duty sergeant.

Both quoted from police constab. websites.

So, you would normally be dealt with by someone of (at least) inspector rank. Sergeants can deputise if Insp. not available...
Good enough xpc316e?

 

[Flyer]

Grav, are you taking this s59 warning seriously enough? You do know that you are one wrong step away from losing your vehicle, with no right of appeal?

If you are accused by a police officer again of a s59 offence, you will have the vehicle you are driving at the time, whether you own it or not, taken off you, with no right of appeal.

If someone else is given a s59 whilst riding your bike (probably unlikely), then you also lose it. The s59 applies to both you and the vehicle you were in/on at the time.

And just to confirm in case you missed it, you have no right of appeal. It is purely on the say-so of one police officer.

It is an appalling law, that we are all one step away from falling foul of; accelerate briskly away from a standing start; an overtake that you believe was perfectly safe; take a roundabout a little too fast, etc.

It may well have been written with good intentions, but it's clearly a step too far.

 

[Dieselman]

Does a section 59 notice apply if the vehicle in question is not being used on a public highway? Does this mean you could get one if using a bike in your own field?
I thought it was meant to be used instead of reporting someone for dangerous or reckless driving on a highway.

I would've thought that a charge of disturbing the peace is more appropriate off road.

And as far as the cows mooing, they do round here, bikes or not. Maybe she comes from Milton keynes..

 

[splang]

Grav - I will happily stand up in court and declare that the cows moo round here too!

 

[splang]

Solved it!

It's not because their scared - it's because they want to go to the moon!

http://www.cowsgomoo.co.uk/

 

[Dieselman]

Now, that would be some defence in court...the cows were talking to me..

 

[IanA2]

All seems a bit bizarre....

 

[Sp!ke]

Agree with Flyer, misbehave in any vehicle and get given another section 59 and you can lose the vehicle permanently, regardless of what it is or who it belongs to.

What about this land you were riding on, is it legal to ride there? I take it it isnt...

 

[neilrr]

IMHO that's very heavy handed.

I'd go to the station & speak to her supervisor & see what steps, if any, could be taken to have that rescinded.

Don't let them forget, they work for you!

 

[Dieselman]

Don't let them forget, they work for you!

Do they.?
I thought they worked for Crown and enforced the Crown laws.

I'd be tempted to find the correct situation before making contact with the Police.

 

[IanA2]

Call your lawyer...........

 

[Sp!ke]

Just wondering when cows became 'members of the public'?

59 Vehicles used in manner causing alarm, distress or annoyance (1) Where a constable in uniform has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used on any occasion in a manner which—
(a) contravenes section 3 or 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (careless and inconsiderate driving and prohibition of off-road driving), and
(b) is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public,
he shall have the powers set out in subsection (3).
(2) A constable in uniform shall also have the powers set out in subsection (3) where he has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle has been used on any occasion in a manner falling within subsection (1).
(3) Those powers are—
(a) power, if the motor vehicle is moving, to order the person driving it to stop the vehicle;
(b) power to seize and remove the motor vehicle;
(c) power, for the purposes of exercising a power falling within paragraph (a) or (b), to enter any premises on which he has reasonable grounds for believing the motor vehicle to be;
(d) power to use reasonable force, if necessary, in the exercise of any power conferred by any of paragraphs to (a) to (c).
(4) A constable shall not seize a motor vehicle in the exercise of the powers conferred on him by this section unless—
(a) he has warned the person appearing to him to be the person whose use falls within subsection (1) that he will seize it, if that use continues or is repeated; and
(b) it appears to him that the use has continued or been repeated after the the warning.