Should the Police ever just "Give Up"?

[Swiss Toni]

I was witness to the end of a Police Pursuit on the M25 recently.

9pm-ish, light traffic and 4 marked Volvos boxed-in a car (BMW) with a further marked Volvo holding the following traffic back whilst the cars up front exchanged bodywork and rubber.

A clear TPAC (Tactical Pursuit And Containment) manouvre.

The Volvos were clearly tight against the BMW but were still being pushed about before it came to a stop.

I have no idea what the innocent driver in the BMW had done, whether the car was stolen or what the outcome was, but it left me wondering - Should the Police ever just "Give Up" if they don't know why a car is failing to stop (and in fact, should they just give up if they do know?).

Pretty much damned if they do, damned if they don't - the incident on the M25 was quite a sight to behold.

 

[scumbag]

difficult question.

do they allow them to get away and drive into someone else, killing innocent people, or do they chase them into someone else, killing innocent people.

Its not my call thank goodness.

If it was, I would fit car to car missiles to Police cars, then laugh in buckets at everyone driving about correctly and not uttering a single word of criticism.

 

[recycled]

assess the situation and act accordingly. not worth chasing an expired tax disc through schools at 100mph but if there is a kidnapped baby in the car that is another case.
the situation changes as it unfolds.
Are there infants in the car, is he driving on the wrong side of the road, e.t.c

 

[pammy]

The problem is Toni that as ever, we don't know what the situation was here, only the bit that in this case you saw. No idea what danger and mayhem the BMW had caused before.

They do have to get clear instruction to undertake a TPAC so I have faith that it would only be a justified action for the good of us all. But if the action was clearly going to fail and only cause more danger and put others at greater risk then they would call the pursuit off.

 

[Swiss Toni]

And be judged with the benefit of hindsight?

 

[Swiss Toni]

assess the situation and act accordingly. not worth chasing an expired tax disc through schools at 100mph but if there is a kidnapped baby in the car that is another case.

But in many (most?) cases they will not know why the driver has failed to stop (the car might not have been reported stolen yet, for example).

 

[recycled]

But in many (most?) cases they will not know why the driver has failed to stop (the car might not have been reported stolen yet, for example).

agreed. same as driving your car and living your life,. it is a risk.
it is the manner of some of their driving too that panics people.

 

[st13phil]

I agree with Scumbag - it's a difficult call. That's the main reason why the decision is pushed up the chain of command to a senior officer. The trouble is that they're in a control room and have to make a decision based on verbal (radio) reports without the benefit of seeing what's going on.

Ultimately, it's got to come down to an assessment of whether or not someone's likely to get badly hurt or, worse, killed as a result of making all efforts to effect a stop or to let them run and hopefully pick them up later. That's not an easy call to make and there are thousands of armchair critics who, with the luxury of as much time to consider the situation after the event as they like, and when all the information is known, are ready to criticise and say that what was done was wrong.

 

[DansSlk]

assess the situation and act accordingly. not worth chasing an expired tax disc through schools at 100mph but if there is a kidnapped baby in the car that is another case.

I'd take that a step further and say it's not worth chasing anybody through schools or populated area's full stop for that matter at 100mph.

If you have somebody on a motorway who doesn't stop regardless of the cause then i wouldn't give in, I'm no expert but I'm sure it's a damn side easier and safer to undertake something like this on a motorway than it is in the middle of a town.

 

[glojo]

Should the Police ever just "Give Up" if they don't know why a car is failing to stop (and in fact, should they just give up if they do know?).

Pretty much damned if they do, damned if they don't - the incident on the M25 was quite a sight to behold.

I think the answer is quite simple but we tend to start adding provisos

Yes

They should giveup if it becomes clear that the offending driver is going way OTT.

We will then start adding provisos about the car might contain rapists, bank robbers etc etc, but should we recklessly endanger innocent members of the public

How about should the police allow a persued vehicle to leave a motorway?

I say this because once the persued vehicle leaves a containable area they may well head into a built up area and cause any type of incident whereas if the police 'cvaused' the persued car to stop on a motorway in a safe to other road users manner the only people at risk would be the occupants of the vehcle that failed to stop.

Regards
Two cents John

 

[xpc316e]

There ought never to be a clear set of criteria under which a pursuit must be terminated - if there were, then all a driver has to do is for example drive through a red traffic light and the Police have to stop. The result would be mayhem, with people everywhere not being chased and stopped.

I think that the present situation in which a senior officer in a control room calls it off, if deemed necessary, does not have too much wrong with it. To leave it as a decision to be made by the driver of the pursuit vehicle is to invite disaster, as he/she might suffer from 'redmist' and fail to call it off when circumstances demand.

To say that a pursuit is dangerous at 100mph is total rubbish: if 100mph is a safe speed to travel at, then travel at 100mph. If you make a rule about terminating a chase if it goes near a school, then all your average teenage car thief is going to do is head for the nearest school.

 

[glojo]

There ought never to be a clear set of criteria under which a pursuit must be terminated - if there were, then all a driver has to do is for example drive through a red traffic light and the Police have to stop. The result would be mayhem, with people everywhere not being chased and stopped.

I think that the present situation in which a senior officer in a control room calls it off, if deemed necessary, does not have too much wrong with it. To leave it as a decision to be made by the driver of the pursuit vehicle is to invite disaster, as he/she might suffer from 'redmist' and fail to call it off when circumstances demand.

To say that a pursuit is dangerous at 100mph is total rubbish: if 100mph is a safe speed to travel at, then travel at 100mph. If you make a rule about terminating a chase if it goes near a school, then all your average teenage car thief is going to do is head for the nearest school.

I would guess there are very strict Home Office Guide Lines and police forces will definitely have policies regarding this.

Regards
John

 

[DansSlk]

There ought never to be a clear set of criteria under which a pursuit must be terminated - if there were, then all a driver has to do is for example drive through a red traffic light and the Police have to stop. The result would be mayhem, with people everywhere not being chased and stopped.

I think that the present situation in which a senior officer in a control room calls it off, if deemed necessary, does not have too much wrong with it. To leave it as a decision to be made by the driver of the pursuit vehicle is to invite disaster, as he/she might suffer from 'redmist' and fail to call it off when circumstances demand.

To say that a pursuit is dangerous at 100mph is total rubbish: if 100mph is a safe speed to travel at, then travel at 100mph. If you make a rule about terminating a chase if it goes near a school, then all your average teenage car thief is going to do is head for the nearest school.

Well it's just common sense isn't it? no need to complicate things with fixed 'dangerous' speed's or restricted area's.

You wouldn't drive down a town's main street at 50mph with people on either side of the road, regardless of who makes the actual call i would expect anybody with a brain to agree here.

On the same note you could easily push a chase on a empty motorway up to 100 without much risk to the public, again regardless of who makes the call it's common sense to me.

I assume this is how it work's now anyways.

 

[janner]

If they had enough time to get four Volvos in place and another performing a rolling road block then the pursuit must have been going for some time. With an empty stretch of motorway there's then no real danger to the public and if Mr BMW was still that keen on getting away you can assume he had something serious to hide?
The police do a good job, most of the time. Let's hope the courts give him a suitable sentence if he's found guilty.

 

[oldcro]

Why 4 Volvos? surely one with a shotgun is enough being both cheaper and more envronmentally friendly.

Seriously though, the profession in which everyone is perfect does not exist so how about equal priase as well as critisism for our police officers. Just imagine what life would be without any law enforcement.

 

[glojo]

Here is the official spill

Pursuit is a high risk policing area, both nationally and locally. There is always a need to balance the requirement to prevent crime against the expectation of our communities with regard to public safety.
Police drivers are constantly under scrutiny and the Force has invested substantially within the area of driver training and pursuit management, in particular, ‘Tactical Pursuit and Containment’ (TPAC) which is a nationally agreed tactical strategy to respond safely to pursuit situations.
The drivers involved in such strategies are advanced trained (in excess of eight weeks training in total) and are supported by robust Control Room management.
All pursuits must be authorised by the Control Room and are supported by a team approach thus avoiding the personal challenge the driver could face.
It must be borne in mind that the criminal fraternities have access to motor vehicles and when detected on our roads sometimes attempt to make good their escape.
Improved tactics are continually being developed and the Home Office has a department that specialises in future vehicle disabling devices.
As Devon & Cornwall Constabulary has one of the largest road networks in the country, the Force helicopter has a vital role to play within the TPAC strategy.
Officers are required to continually undertake risk assessment when engaged in TPAC and should the circumstances not warrant an immediate police response, the pursuit could be called off and the offender arrested by other means.
Officers engaged in TPAC receive regular refresher training.

This is not me speaking out of turn. It is readily available via Mr Google

regards
John

 

[stevesey]

Why 4 Volvos? surely one with a shotgun is enough being both cheaper and more envronmentally friendly.

All that lead? Not to mention the noise - crossbow perhaps

 

[Swiss Toni]

Just imagine what life would be without any law enforcement.

Liverpool?