Stop expanding the ULEZ to all the London boroughs in 2023

[ChrisHGTV]

Its 2030.....with the exception of the very cleanest hybrids with a 50 mile min pure EV range....which is not many of them.

...or as Germany are pushing for - ICE that run on synthetics...

Personally I think we are very far away from where we would need to be to meet this deadline, given we're still jumping back to coal for the basics:

UK heatwave prompts National Grid to fire up coal plant to meet aircon demand

 

[markjay]

A scientific summary of Diesel Vs Petrol pollution, delivered dispassionately by someone who's clearly not a car enthusiast and has no dog in this race.... (Sabine Hossenfelder is a theoretical physicist):

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The bottom line? There's not that much between them....

 

[Bellow]

The bottom line? There's not that much between them....

Really? At engine out NOx is so much worse in a diesel than with a petrol and only the emissions kit reduces it at the tail pipe. That the robustness of that emissions kit is lacking and is being bypassed by some goes unmentioned.

The points about passenger cars being minimal contributors and the contribution from wood burning stoves and delivery trucks is valid but no one has the gumption to give up their fashion accessory wood burning stove or give a thought to all the home deliveries they initiate.

 

[TC350]

A scientific summary of Diesel Vs Petrol pollution, delivered dispassionately by someone who's clearly not a car enthusiast and has no dog in this race.... (Sabine Hossenfelder is a theoretical physicist):

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The bottom line? There's not that much between them....

Interesting. But I don’t agree that it shows that there’s not much between diesel and petrol in respect of pollution. The comparisons she presented were between older petrol and modern diesel engines. Surely, that explains why ULEZ isn’t penalising older petrol and newer diesel engined vehicles. Makes sense to me.

Of more concern is the lax attempts shown by governments around the world to achieve the pollution levels recommended by the WHO. We’re still a very long way off, but still people complain about ULEZ and similar. Then of course we get the morons who don’t give a toss about pollution when they insist on removing their exhaust filtration/control systems for an extra few mph, which they’ll never use!

 

[ALFAitalia]

Most don't remove them for that reason in my experience......mostly its done as its the only way to keep the car on the road and reliable without starting a second mortgage!!!

 

[TC350]

Most don't remove them for that reason in my experience......mostly its done as its the only way to keep the car on the road and reliable without starting a second mortgage!!!

Whatever the reason, it’s mighty antisocial.

 

[Bellow]

Then of course we get the morons who don’t give a toss about pollution when they insist on removing their exhaust filtration/control systems for an extra few mph, which they’ll never use!

Most don't remove them for that reason in my experience......mostly its done as its the only way to keep the car on the road and reliable without starting a second mortgage!!!

Some though, remove it out of meanness. They want the great fuel economy of a diesel (frequently in a large prestigious vehicle) but are not prepared to spend on proper maintenance.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Is it though @ToeKneeS ?.....maybe if you live in a busy city or that there London......but will a few extra particulates affect anyone on sunny Hampshire ....or even the far superior West Sussex!!....I think not. If it does worry you then just offset that by thinking of the fact that although you are kicking out a few particulates , you are doing your bit for global warming/climate change by driving a diesel that kicks out far less carbon than the petrol equivalent!!!

 

[TC350]

Is it though @ToeKneeS ?.....maybe if you live in a busy city or that there London......but will a few extra particulates affect anyone on sunny Hampshire ....or even the far superior West Sussex!!....I think not. If it does worry you then just offset that by thinking of the fact that although you are kicking out a few particulates , you are doing your bit for global warming/climate change by driving a diesel that kicks out far less carbon than the petrol equivalent!!!

Indeed, hence the penalties for some in crowded London but less concern for those of us in the sticks. But, there’s always a ‘but’ isn’t there, as the lady in markjay’s video said, those tiny and very harmful particles hang around for weeks and are accumulative. I’ve no idea what harm they’re doing to my 8-year old daughter’s innards as she walks back and forth to school by a busy A road every day.

What’s the point of saving the planet if humanity is killed off first?

 

[markjay]

When everyone is compliant car wise then the tax will move away from exhaust emission and towards brake dust and tyre wear pollution. Tax will be based on miles travelled. By that stage there will be toll tax for all major A routes and motorways so it will be already "accepted".

This will still favour EVs due to the near-zero use of friction braking.

And BTW, here's Joe Rogan talking utter crap....

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He clearly never heard of regenerative braking

 

[Dickster]

You'll be thrilled to know then, that the government isn't planning to tax new ICE cars, instead it's banning altogether the sale of new ICE cars as of 2035. Clearly, this demonstrates our government's genuine concern about air quality, I.e. instead of opting for the tax-grab option as Khan did they are banning sale of the most polluting vehicles.

Nothing to do with their concern for air quality

 

[W1ghty]

Court case is today and tomorrow, I’m still gambling on it being overturned

 

[pioneercollector]

Really? At engine out NOx is so much worse in a diesel than with a petrol and only the emissions kit reduces it at the tail pipe. That the robustness of that emissions kit is lacking and is being bypassed by some goes unmentioned.

The points about passenger cars being minimal contributors and the contribution from wood burning stoves and delivery trucks is valid but no one has the gumption to give up their fashion accessory wood burning stove or give a thought to all the home deliveries they initiate.

I have a log burner, and i can assure you that it is not a fashion accessory! Unfortunately my home is a listed building so is freezing in the winter - Without the log burner we would probably die of hypothermia! ( And no i cannot change the windows or doors to something sensible that looks the same - But can heat the place with log burners! Go figure .... ) Sigh

 

[Darrell]

I have a log burner, and i can assure you that it is not a fashion accessory! Unfortunately my home is a listed building so is freezing in the winter - Without the log burner we would probably die of hypothermia! ( And no i cannot change the windows or doors to something sensible that looks the same - But can heat the place with log burners! Go figure .... ) Sigh

Can’t you install central heating?

 

[pioneercollector]

We have central heating, and lots of double radiators, However as the house was built well over 200 years ago, it has no cavity walls and is built with flagstone flooring on mud .... couple that with reasonably large rooms, single glazed sash windows and old doors = Brrrrrrr even with the heating on the go!

 

[W1ghty]

The Judge has said he will try and announce his decision before the 31st July …depending on how many sunny golf days there are between now and then .

 

[ChipChop]

Seems there is actually something of a revolt happening with ULEZ fines.

In 2022 ULEZ generated £151.3m in daily charges and £73.3m in PCN's. Total £224,633,003. A huge sum of money lost to the wider economy. All outlined in the below BBC piece.

ULEZ: Charges and fines raised nine-figure sum in 2022

The money was raised by making daily charges on non-compliant vehicles and issuing penalty notices.

www.bbc.co.uk

However according to the below Guardian article following a freedom of information request motorists did not pay PCNs worth £255,545,388 in 2022.

The great Ulez revolt – drivers snub fines with £250m unpaid in a year

Sadiq Khan’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money than it made last year

www.telegraph.co.uk

So a very small percentage of ULEZ PCN's are being paid. A 'protest'? Just Stop ULEZ sounds catchy. If it is then it is a 'protest' by the silent majority that is getting little media exposure.

 

[markjay]

My experience is that only people who can circumnavigate their way around the courts and the bailiffs (and there are many who are experts at it) can afford to ignore PCNs.

Most ordinary people are not in that category. At work, we occasionally receive court orders instructing us to deduct bebt payments from employee's salary, for example.

I suspect that the 'revolt' is just wishful thinking on behalf of The Telegraph, while in fact those who don't pay their PCNs simply do not pay PCNs... full stop.

Either the plates are cloned, or the car isn't theirs, or they provide fake address, or they reject the demand letters and claim they don't live there, or they have no fixed abode, or they have no assets and no income in their name - the list of things that those in the know can muster to avoid paying debt (and PCNs) is endless.

 

[davymead]

My experience is that only people who can circumnavigate their way around the courts and the bailiffs (and there are many who are experts at it) can afford to ignore PCNs.

Most ordinary people are not in that category. At work, we occasionally receive court orders instructing us to deduct bebt payments from employee's salary, for example.

I suspect that the 'revolt' is just wishful thinking on behalf of The Telegraph, while in fact those who don't pay their PCNs simply do not pay PCNs... full stop.

Either the plates are cloned, or the car isn't theirs, or they provide fake address, or they reject the demand letters and claim they don't live there, or they have no fixed abode, or they have no assets and no income in their name - the list of things that those in the know can muster to avoid paying debt (and PCNs) is endless.

£250,000,000 unpaid in a year would seem to indicate a fairly large amount of circumnavigation

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Yeah, it can't all be dodgy number plates

Though those ULEZ protests are usually pretty poor in turnout, mind