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Synthetic Myths

oilman

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I read so much stuff on the internet about Synthetic Oils that is simply not true so I felt it was time to tell the truth rather than accept the myth.

So in future when you see someone state any of these, please do me a favour and point them at this thread!

Synthetic motor oils damage seals:

Complete Nonsense! Any oil seals made after 1975 or thereabouts will be entirely compatible with any type of synthetic engine oil. (The same goes for synthetic gear oils and transmission oil seals.) It must be understood that everything associated with lubrication is thoroughly tested. The major oil manufacturers do not make oils that attack seals; seal manufacturers ensure that their products function correctly with modern lubricants.

Synthetic oils are too thin:

It is true that the best synthetic blends can be low viscosity (0w-20 for example), but they do not have to be! It is also true that the latest engines are designed to run on thin oil, which improves power output and fuel consumption. Even so, thicker synthetic based grades (10w-50, 15w-50, 20w-50etc) are available for air-cooled motors, older engines, or severe high temperature conditions. These grades can also benefit rebuilt classic engines dating back to the 1940s.

Synthetics mean higher oil usage:

The complete opposite of the truth. Oil consumption in well-maintained modern engines is mainly down to the oil evaporating at high temperatures. Synthetic base oils (specially the PAO and ester types) are very resistant to evaporation loss even in low viscosity blends, so oil consumption is minimised. Obviously, engines with worn valve guides, defective seals and worn piston rings will use oil regardless, so there is no point in using expensive synthetics as an ‘old banger lube’.

Synthetic oils are not compatible with other oils:

All engine oils intended for normal road use in recent 4-stroke engines are compatible with one another, regardless of the base make-up. (mineral, PAO/ester/hydrocracked synthetic, and semi-synthetic.) There is no need to flush or strip down an engine when changing from one type to another. (…but be careful with the exception: castor oil based racing oils.)

Synthetic oils produce sludge:

Well honestly, this is just totally daft. All synthetic bases are more resistant to oxidation than mineral oil, and sludge is largely due to oxidation. In any case, all motor oils intended for road use meet the higher API specs such as SH, SJ, SL and diesel equivalents. One of the main reasons for introducing the API specs back in the 1950s was to deal with oil sludge problems. All high-spec oils run very clean, especially synthetics.

Synthetic oils cannot be used with catalytic converters:

‘Cats’ will perform more efficiently and last longer if synthetic based engine oil is used. Their lower volatility (see 3 above) means that less oil reaches the combustion chambers via crankcase ventilation, so there are less harmful ash residues from burnt oil to de-activate the catalyst matrix.

Synthetic oils can void warranties:

People who make statements such as this never define the type of synthetic, thus revealing their ignorance. Provided that an oil meets or exceeds the API and viscosity ranges specified in the handbook, the warranty will not be affected. (By law, OEMs cannot insist that a particular brand of oil must be used to maintain warranty.)

Synthetic oils will last forever:

The better synthetic blends will certainly last longer*, especially in high performance or high annual mileage situations, but ‘forever’ is not on, simply because contaminants such as soot, and acid gasses from traces of sulphur in the fuel degrade the oil.
(*Provided that a very shear resistant VI improver polymer is used in the oil formulation to keep the viscosity up to spec. This point is often forgotten.

Synthetic oils are too expensive:

True, for older vehicles that use a lot of oil or are almost ready for the scrap yard. For cars that are worth maintaining, the right types of synthetic oil are a cost-effective way of retaining ‘as new’ performance, low fuel consumption, and reducing maintenance costs. (See 6 above, for example. ‘Cats’ aren’t cheap!)

Cheers
Simon
 
Excellent guide. Very helpful.

Thank you.
 
Here's another myth: don't use fully synthetic oil for running in as the lubrication is soooo good the bores don't wear in properly.

Except it's true - for high performance bikes, at least.

Unless sufficient friction is generated during the initial 700 - 1,000 miles of a sporting bike's life the engine may be permanently down on power and hungry on oil. (And as a matter of fact, the suspension will not bed in well either if the bike isn't ridden fairly hard and leaned well over into the bends.)

Professional racers deliberately thrash new engines as this produces up to 5 additional bhp on the dyno over a carefully run-in motor. And lower oil consumption too.

You can permanently harm a new engine by not running it in hot and hard, or if you use fully synthetic oil from new.

Sorry - this is a car forum, but engines is engines!

Anyone else into bikes?? :bannana:
 
oilman said:
I read so much stuff on the internet about Synthetic Oils that is simply not true so I felt it was time to tell the truth rather than accept the myth.

So in future when you see someone state any of these, please do me a favour and point them at this thread!

Synthetic motor oils damage seals:

Complete Nonsense! Any oil seals made after 1975 or thereabouts will be entirely compatible with any type of synthetic engine oil. (The same goes for synthetic gear oils and transmission oil seals.) It must be understood that everything associated with lubrication is thoroughly tested. The major oil manufacturers do not make oils that attack seals; seal manufacturers ensure that their products function correctly with modern lubricants.

Synthetic oils are too thin:

It is true that the best synthetic blends can be low viscosity (0w-20 for example), but they do not have to be! It is also true that the latest engines are designed to run on thin oil, which improves power output and fuel consumption. Even so, thicker synthetic based grades (10w-50, 15w-50, 20w-50etc) are available for air-cooled motors, older engines, or severe high temperature conditions. These grades can also benefit rebuilt classic engines dating back to the 1940s.

Synthetics mean higher oil usage:

The complete opposite of the truth. Oil consumption in well-maintained modern engines is mainly down to the oil evaporating at high temperatures. Synthetic base oils (specially the PAO and ester types) are very resistant to evaporation loss even in low viscosity blends, so oil consumption is minimised. Obviously, engines with worn valve guides, defective seals and worn piston rings will use oil regardless, so there is no point in using expensive synthetics as an ‘old banger lube’.

Synthetic oils are not compatible with other oils:

All engine oils intended for normal road use in recent 4-stroke engines are compatible with one another, regardless of the base make-up. (mineral, PAO/ester/hydrocracked synthetic, and semi-synthetic.) There is no need to flush or strip down an engine when changing from one type to another. (…but be careful with the exception: castor oil based racing oils.)

Synthetic oils produce sludge:

Well honestly, this is just totally daft. All synthetic bases are more resistant to oxidation than mineral oil, and sludge is largely due to oxidation. In any case, all motor oils intended for road use meet the higher API specs such as SH, SJ, SL and diesel equivalents. One of the main reasons for introducing the API specs back in the 1950s was to deal with oil sludge problems. All high-spec oils run very clean, especially synthetics.

Synthetic oils cannot be used with catalytic converters:

‘Cats’ will perform more efficiently and last longer if synthetic based engine oil is used. Their lower volatility (see 3 above) means that less oil reaches the combustion chambers via crankcase ventilation, so there are less harmful ash residues from burnt oil to de-activate the catalyst matrix.

Synthetic oils can void warranties:

People who make statements such as this never define the type of synthetic, thus revealing their ignorance. Provided that an oil meets or exceeds the API and viscosity ranges specified in the handbook, the warranty will not be affected. (By law, OEMs cannot insist that a particular brand of oil must be used to maintain warranty.)

Synthetic oils will last forever:

The better synthetic blends will certainly last longer*, especially in high performance or high annual mileage situations, but ‘forever’ is not on, simply because contaminants such as soot, and acid gasses from traces of sulphur in the fuel degrade the oil.
(*Provided that a very shear resistant VI improver polymer is used in the oil formulation to keep the viscosity up to spec. This point is often forgotten.

Synthetic oils are too expensive:

True, for older vehicles that use a lot of oil or are almost ready for the scrap yard. For cars that are worth maintaining, the right types of synthetic oil are a cost-effective way of retaining ‘as new’ performance, low fuel consumption, and reducing maintenance costs. (See 6 above, for example. ‘Cats’ aren’t cheap!)

Cheers
Simon
hi
try this site it may help, . [ mobil 1 test results ]
 
Last edited:
Birdman said:
Here's another myth: don't use fully synthetic oil for running in as the lubrication is soooo good the bores don't wear in properly.

Except it's true - for high performance bikes, at least.

Unless sufficient friction is generated during the initial 700 - 1,000 miles of a sporting bike's life the engine may be permanently down on power and hungry on oil. (And as a matter of fact, the suspension will not bed in well either if the bike isn't ridden fairly hard and leaned well over into the bends.)

Professional racers deliberately thrash new engines as this produces up to 5 additional bhp on the dyno over a carefully run-in motor. And lower oil consumption too.

You can permanently harm a new engine by not running it in hot and hard, or if you use fully synthetic oil from new.



:

The same really applies to car engines.

Rather than thrashing an engine I would go for revving the engine at full load (steep hill, heavy load) several times for the first twenty miles or so. This will definately reduce bore glaze and will ensure the piston rings seat well into the cylinders.
 
Useful info,

So what about SEMI synthetics?
or those described as a synthetic blend?

Priced midway between a true synthetic and a pure mineral.
 
I'm hoping the new avatar will be my fav road machine the CBR1000RR. Yeah!

By the way Coupe Freak, how do I get to display an image alongside the post? I've uploaded an image but not sure how to display it, as against display a clicklink to the file? I guess there's an FAQ on it but the only one I can find doesn't convince!
 
Last edited:
Birdman said:
I'm hoping the new avatar will be my fav road machine the CBR1000RR. Yeah!

By the way Coupe Freak, how do I get to display an image alongside the post? I've uploaded an image but not sure how to display it, as against display a clicklink to the file? I guess there's an FAQ on it but the only one I can find doesn't convince!

click,, manage attatchments
click,, browse,, select your pic
click,, upload
click,, close window

thats it,,
 
This is a test attachment of my brother on board one of my rides!
A long way off topic, but hey! I'm learning a new skill here...:)
 

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COUPE FREAK said:
think there should be a section on the forum for bike riding mb owners,,???
Yeah, for sure. There must be lots crazies here like us.
Do you think the Administrator will move us into our own closet?! :bannana:
 
Dieselman said:
Rather than thrashing an engine I would go for revving the engine at full load (steep hill, heavy load) several times for the first twenty miles or so.

Hi Dieselman - I can see you don't run automatics! It's an interesting pov since it's opposite to what the manufacturers say. But what do they know? :rolleyes:
I'd rather have the forum's advice anytime!:D
 
Disagree with the thrashing it from new idea! The trick is to keep the engine running freely. Dont labour it (bore glazing) and dont race it (possible seizure and excessive wear from tight tolerances). A gradual increase in engine speed over about 500 mles is all thats needed.
Once its run in you can do what you like.
Our marked police cars are Peugeot diesels and thanks to the bean counters they are the underpowered base models. I promise you this, they get caned to death in every gear, they are run on less than minimal oil (because no one ever checks it) and totaly abused, we have one thats covered 100,000 miles and is still running. This is more a testament to modern engines than peugeot. The point Im making is that if you only half decently run your motor in, it will still last a long long time with regular maintenance.

Looking forward to our own patch......Bandit 1200s.....E300TD
 
Birdman said:
Hi Dieselman - I can see you don't run automatics! It's an interesting pov since it's opposite to what the manufacturers say. But what do they know? :rolleyes:
I'd rather have the forum's advice anytime!:D

Oh yes I do!!

Just get all your mates into the car, find a steep hill and accellerate up the hill just to the point before kickdown engages.
The additional pressure in the cylinders will cause the rings to press out into the bores and the heat will burn off any oil glaze.

Blowby...pah.:)
 
Dieselman said:
Oh yes I do!!

Just get all your mates into the car, find a steep hill and accellerate up the hill just to the point before kickdown engages. Blowby...pah.:)

What if you're Johnny No-mates and live in the Suffolk flatlands?! :(

You just thrash 'em instead. Like I do....:D
 
Birdman said:
Btw forgot to ask - what is a (1979) fl?? :cool:

can't you see the pic,,

it's a "HARLEY DAVIDSON"
 

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