This should get blood boiling

[fredfloggle]

If it listened to the CD player too loud then maybe it would be hard of heron?

 

[fredfloggle]

I reckon that we should legalize every crime against person and property and apply the death penalty to valve core thieves, then there won't be any crime on the UK.

 

[GRAV888]

I reckon that we should legalize every crime against person and property and apply the death penalty to valve core thieves, then there won't be any crime on the UK.

But would it take a person to put the thought of stealing said valve cores into another person's head?

 

[fredfloggle]

But would it take a person to put the thought of stealing said valve cores into another person's head?

It would take someone small minded to consider that an off the cuff joke about such a thing should be taken seriously

I also want anyone who has a crash of any description to be charged with the potentially heinous crime of theft of paint by frictional transfer.

 

[fredfloggle]

But would it take a person to put the thought of stealing said valve cores into another person's head?

Wow, like Bentley and Craig - "let him have it"

 

[GRAV888]

It would take someone small minded to consider that an off the cuff joke about such a thing should be taken seriously

Then why post it in the first place?

 

[fredfloggle]

Then why post it in the first place?

Because had you or one of the favoured posted it, we both know that nothing would be said - we have had plenty of posts where violence has been suggested as retribution for damage to a vehicle, is that not a little more serious?

Still, we know they way it is now don't we? no jokes about such things, and particularly nothing that suggests a way to circumvent the law.

 

[recycled]

I like the statement where there is no evidence of crime.
I still put forward the notion that if a crime is not proven there should be no conviction. shame the motorists has to name himself as the person who committed the crime.
I would like to see NIPs to burglars.i.e you were seen in a shop stuffing clothes into your pants on CCTV can you please tell us why you did it and please fill in this form saying it was you and you were guilty . with all the warnings going on, the cops are on first name basis with shoplifters anyway

 

[GRAV888]

Because had you or one of the favoured posted it, we both know that nothing would be said

Total rubbish

- we have had plenty of posts where violence has been suggested as retribution for damage to a vehicle, is that not a little more serious?

Any threats of violence are not tollerated on these forums and any that have been posted, have been dealt with.

 

[fredfloggle]

I like the statement where there is no evidence of crime.
I still put forward the notion that if a crime is not proven there should be no conviction. shame the motorists has to name himself as the person who committed the crime.
I would like to see NIPs to burglars.i.e you were seen in a shop stuffing clothes into your pants on CCTV can you please tell us why you did it and please fill in this form saying it was you and you were guilty . with all the warnings going on, the cops are on first name basis with shoplifters anyway

String a few up - give 'em the message, and letting trash like Doherty out early really sends out a good message.

 

[fredfloggle]

Total rubbish

Any threats of violence are not tollerated on these forums and any that have been posted, have been dealt with.

Yes of course. Silly me.

 

[glojo]

I like the statement where there is no evidence of crime.
I still put forward the notion that if a crime is not proven there should be no conviction. shame the motorists has to name himself as the person who committed the crime.
I would like to see NIPs to burglars.i.e you were seen in a shop stuffing clothes into your pants on CCTV can you please tell us why you did it and please fill in this form saying it was you and you were guilty . with all the warnings going on, the cops are on first name basis with shoplifters anyway

You get my vote and if my registration numberr is pictured on a speeding car and I say that is not my car; then to me the onus should be on the prosecution to prove a) It was my car and b) it was me driving.

We must not however make any false statement

In reality I wonder how the court deals with people that give 'No comment' interviews?

Not the Daily Mail unfortunately but should this make our blood boil?

regards
John

 

[recycled]

The best way to avoid being caught committing a crime is to walk. use the bus or take public transport. As long as you do not have a car, your chances of being let off are higher.
i get that feeling watching road wars, street crime uk.
Most of their busts involve stopped cars, people driving or just using roads.
I hope i am wrong

 

[robert.saunders]

Fred banned again? That didn't take long; oh dear, who is going to watch my punctuation now?

<sigh>

 

[Howard]

I've actually had to do some work today ..... looks like i missed all the fun ....

 

[Dragon]

The best way to avoid being caught committing a crime is to walk. use the bus or take public transport. As long as you do not have a car, your chances of being let off are higher.
i get that feeling watching road wars, street crime uk.
Most of their busts involve stopped cars, people driving or just using roads.
I hope i am wrong

I have seen bus users get stabbed.

 

[Dieselman]

Of course it is not a crime.
Doing 35mph in a 30 (now that is a very serious crime that can earn you a criminal record if you do not pay up or try to pervert the course of justice by lying.)

The speeding isn't a crime as such and you will not have a criminal record as a result.

The failure to abide by court sentencing or purgery are the serious crimes.

 

[glojo]

Numerous folks understandably state how the motorist gets unfairly picked upon, but if you want to bump off someone, then rumour has it that if you run them over and apologise..... You will be unfortunate to receive a custodial sentence

I am not advocating violence, I am not suggesting we run anyone over, but I am saying that 'punishment'** is sometimes lamentable.

Regards
John

Edit
**Imprisonment is not meant to be a punishment. It is a place of reform.
Thus sayeth our Minister for Prisons

 

[Swiss Toni]

Where to begin...?!


I think the starting point would have to be my opinion (but what seems to be a pretty obvious fact) that crime is under-recorded. In some cases because the person doesn't believe the Cops will do anything about it, in some cases because the Cops don't record it when they should.

I actually feel sorry for the Cop who is partially quoted in this article, not least because they appear to be talking absolute sense - but the tone of the article suggests this is all about how to "have one over on the public and massage the figures".

'This has been recorded as criminal damage, even though there is no evidence to suggest it fits that definition.

'If there is no evidence of someone intending to destroy or being reckless then there is no crime.'

Spot on.

The offence of Criminal Damage requires intention or reckless behaviour (the state of mind of the person who committed the act at the time they did so) to be proven beyond reasonable doubt (in order to obtain a conviction). The standard the Cops have to apply when recording a crime is not the evidential one (beyond reasonable doubt) but a far lower one - on the balance of probabilities.

The Cop quoted is absolutely right. It would be wrong to record a crime where there is no evidence of it having occurred, and likewise these are the kinds of scenario to consider;

Car owner parks their car in the street overnight and when they come to it in the morning, finds the off-side (road side) door mirror broken and the glass alongside the car. No other damage, but another car further down the road has suffered the same fate. Both mirror housings are black plastic but have red paint on the outside apparently from where the "offending" car has hit them.

Record as Criminal Damage?

No. Record it for what it appears to be - a hit and run collision (well, 2 actually).

In the next street, an owner of a similarly parked car finds their drivers door lock jemmied, but no entry made to their vehicle.

Record as Criminal Damage?

No. Record it for the crime it appears to be - Vehicle Interference.


Further along, a car has had a window broken - the car is gone, but found 1/4 mile away, intact.

Criminal Damage?

No. Taken without the owners consent (not a theft because that requires evidence that there was an intention (state of mind of the offender at the time of the offence, again...) to permanently deprive the owner of it - TWOC does not).

The point here is, that if the Cops record everything as Criminal Damage, you don't know whether there is a car crime problem or the local yobs paint tags on everything that has a vertical surface.

The Cop quoted is absolutely right in the advice given. I just suspect that there was more to the advice than just a few lines quoted (and that does rather make all the difference).


There is no excuse for fiddling the figures, but deliberately recording the majority of vehicle crime as "Criminal Damage" is equally irresponsible.


I do believe that a significant proportion of "stolen" cars are insurance fiddles by their owners (the insurance companies believe so too).


On a far more serious note, getting people to report crime is a particulary difficult task in some arenas - domestic abuse for example, but these are the real "high risk" crimes, where they lead to Murder in a sickening number of cases. Getting the victims to have faith in the Cops is very difficult and not due to Daily Mail journalism, but because of fear of retribution.

 

[Swiss Toni]

I read it in the paper this morning. Couple of years ago my 3 year old step-son accidentally smashed a neighbour's car window ... if nobody had seen that happen would it have been correct for it to be reported as a 'crime' (genuine question)??

No on two counts;

Firstly it was an accident and not a crime.

Secondly, by being 3 years old your step son was below the age of criminal responsibility and so according to law not able to form the necessary state of mind to complete the crime (being deliberate or reckless).


Should not have been recorded as a crime (and you'd have been disapointed if they did, just to get a cheap detection!)


If the Cops had attended and given the lad a warning, I am sure that there is someone on here who would point out that was just typical of the Cops attiftude these days and if the boy had been a motorist, how different it would have been...