To buy a 190e with fuelling issues?

[ToeKnee]

I'm far from offended and certainly not looking for an argument but I hear often from people who know next to nothing about tuning that megasquirt is rubbish when I know it isn't, obviously from your statements you've known of problems so have your own opinion just like I have mine.
When I see statements like "And dont considor megasquirt, that name gets thrown about by people doing projects themselves on the cheap" without anything to back it up then I like to counter comment. Since then you've obviously stated your reasons just as I've stated mine.
We're not agreeing and not really disagreeing so, like you, I'll finish here with thanking you for explaining your position and giving me the opportunity to explain mine. Hope you have a good week.

 

[carat 3.6]

A surprising number of 190e s are being offered for sale, without a substantial discount, where the seller is frank enough to admit that they have no more time to investigate an issue. eg poor cold starting ("might just be the HT leads"....or might need a new K-Jetronic), or it randomly stalls when warm and decelerating. Or indeed has clutch judder when cold.

When I sell cars they are running well, so I'm surprised at how many 190e s have issues like these but are still asking £5-7k (because they are said to have no rust and have the combination of factory A/C and no sunroof that I prefer).

Am I unfair to think that with faults like these, which the seller has tried to resolve themselves but given up on, I should expect almost £1500-£2000 off so I can hand it to a Mercedes Independent and say "please fix" ?

I know this thread is asking about the 190, but have you considered an early w202 c class? That may be a better fit for what your looking for, something like a c180 classic will have air con and minimal electrics, they even have manual rear windows.

 

[MichaelMB]

I know this thread is asking about the 190, but have you considered an early w202 c class? That may be a better fit for what your looking for, something like a c180 classic will have air con and minimal electrics, they even have manual rear windows.

Blimey. No, I don't know enough about all the Mercedes designations. I knew ofa C180 that I see is called the W203 but can't get used to the headlights. The W202 has passed me by, and I shall now enjoy learning about it! I am guilty of listening to many who feel that the W201 and W124 were the last old school Mercs with a great feeling of quality, so hadn't wanted to look any newer. But thanks, I will learn more about the W202

 

[carat 3.6]

Blimey. No, I don't know enough about all the Mercedes designations. I knew ofa C180 that I see is called the W203 but can't get used to the headlights. The W202 has passed me by, and I shall now enjoy learning about it! I am guilty of listening to many who feel that the W201 and W124 were the last old school Mercs with a great feeling of quality, so hadn't wanted to look any newer. But thanks, I will learn more about the W202

The early c class were very similar to a w124 in alot of ways, later on they had facelift and gained more electrics. Think of it as a 190 in a sharp suit.

 

[ChipChop]

Always considered the w202 to be more liable to rot than the w201. Quite fancy a straight six w202 c280 though. Oh and there is also the magnificent om605 engined w202 c250 turbodiesel to consider as well.

 

[MichaelMB]

Always considered the w202 to be more liable to rot than the w201. Quite fancy a straight six w202 c280 though. Oh and there is also the magnificent om605 engined w202 c250 turbodiesel to consider as well.

Yes, I have now read a fair few reviews of the W202. On paper it suits me due to the wizardry of being a fraction larger than the W201 yet giving almost as much interior space as the significantly larger W124. I like it's looks, the spec I want is fairly available, the MPG is improved over the W201. But research suggests that they are mainly rusty by now and have more reliability issues than the W201 or W124.

 

[MichaelMB]

Yes, I have now read a fair few reviews of the W202. On paper it suits me due to the wizardry of being a fraction larger than the W201 yet giving almost as much interior space as the significantly larger W124. I like it's looks, the spec I want is fairly available, the MPG is improved over the W201. But research suggests that they are mainly rusty by now and have more reliability issues than the W201 or W124.

I meant to add that I do now have first refusal on a W201 but not available until late February 2025 when the sellers, who bought it new, take delivery of their next new car. It has a full service history and is immaculate, as new and allegedly rust free having spent it's first 8 years with them in Qatar, then rarely used and always garaged in UK. 75000 miles . Poverty spec 1.8 manual, wind up windows but my required Behr a/c and no sunroof. Should remain very reliable and few gizmos to go wrong. A bit expensive but fair enough too if, when I see it, it's as good as promised and photographed.
In the meantime a stunning looking W124 coupe has cropped up. £3500 dearer and almost 100,000 miles more. 2.2 with 4 speed auto, Behr a/C, no sunroof. It was written off in 2008, possibly not recorded as such and rebuilt to an exemplary standard by a MB master technician. Many new panels and parts, all rust cut out, cream leather, dark blue metallic respray. OH will probably find it a bit big to drive it much cf the W201, and a bit flashy. And not a good colour for our rural roads. But jeez it is pretty to look at. Head says the lovely 190 with impeccable provenance and great practicality. Heart says take a gamble on the W124 coupe. But, I don't have anything to prove, don't want jealous people to key my car, and will fall out of love with a car that is high maintenance.....the car will be used almost daily for B road local trips and will often be left in car parks. If I only wanted a car for occasional enthusiast meets, and wanted to tell the large number of MGBGT owners in a local club that this glamorous coupe cost no more than their cars....no brainer! One of them has already said the W201 is great as a bland taxi!!!

 

[carat 3.6]

I meant to add that I do now have first refusal on a W201 but not available until late February 2025 when the sellers, who bought it new, take delivery of their next new car. It has a full service history and is immaculate, as new and allegedly rust free having spent it's first 8 years with them in Qatar, then rarely used and always garaged in UK. 75000 miles . Poverty spec 1.8 manual, wind up windows but my required Behr a/c and no sunroof. Should remain very reliable and few gizmos to go wrong. A bit expensive but fair enough too if, when I see it, it's as good as promised and photographed.
In the meantime a stunning looking W124 coupe has cropped up. £3500 dearer and almost 100,000 miles more. 2.2 with 4 speed auto, Behr a/C, no sunroof. It was written off in 2008, possibly not recorded as such and rebuilt to an exemplary standard by a MB master technician. Many new panels and parts, all rust cut out, cream leather, dark blue metallic respray. OH will probably find it a bit big to drive it much cf the W201, and a bit flashy. And not a good colour for our rural roads. But jeez it is pretty to look at. Head says the lovely 190 with impeccable provenance and great practicality. Heart says take a gamble on the W124 coupe. But, I don't have anything to prove, don't want jealous people to key my car, and will fall out of love with a car that is high maintenance.....the car will be used almost daily for B road local trips and will often be left in car parks. If I only wanted a car for occasional enthusiast meets, and wanted to tell the large number of MGBGT owners in a local club that this glamorous coupe cost no more than their cars....no brainer! One of them has already said the W201 is great as a bland taxi!!!

If you do take a look at the 124 check the condition of the jacking points, and make sure the engine wiring loom has been replaced.

 

[MichaelMB]

If you do take a look at the 124 check the condition of the jacking points, and make sure the engine wiring loom has been replaced.

If you do take a look at the 124 check the condition of the jacking points, and make sure the engine wiring loom has been replaced.

Vendor states: "This

If you do take a look at the 124 check the condition of the jacking points, and make sure the engine wiring loom has been replaced.

Vendor states:
"This outstanding 1995 Mercedes-Benz E220 C124 pillarless coupe, was comprehensively restored over an 8 year period by a Mercedes master technician. Painted 366 Azurite Blue outside and with 265 Champagne Quartz leather inside. Received a bare-metal respray with all corrosion removed. Head gasket replaced; new front and rear screens; rebuilt suspension and brakes; new 8-hole 15” diamond-cut Mercedes wheels with Michelin tyres. Virtually-unmarked interior with fresh headlining. Brand-new Denso air-conditioning compressor. In remarkable condition throughout. Many £1000s, and hundreds of hours, have been spent on the restoration.

Over the course of 8 years, the car was systematically stripped and rebuilt to a high standard, using genuine Mercedes parts. Highlights of the refurbishment include:
Take body back to bare steel shell
Remove all corrosion; replace and/or repair panels
Respray in 366 Azurite Blue; coat in ceramic lacquer
Waxoyl body cavities and underside
Overhaul cylinder head and replace head gasket
Fit new fuel pump, exhaust, all filters and service items
Fit new Denso air-conditioning compressor, v-belt and dryer
Fit new OEM engine under-tray
Renew brake lines, pads, discs and suspension components
Replace transmission shifter bushes
Fit new front and rear screens, plus various window/ door seals
Replace interior headlining and recover seats with OEM Mercedes trim
Fit new diamond-cut wheels; fit new Michelin tyres

The car comes complete with a used spare wheel in the boot and I have a matching brand new Mercedes boxed spare wheel too, that comes free with the car. It also has a genuine 1995 sales brochure for the W124 Coupe, and its owner's manual included. It is stored in Enfield at present. Contact me if you are interested in buying the car.

This Mercedes W124 Coupe is a superb example that has been carefully and thoughtfully restored by a Mercedes master technician. His efforts resulted in a car that is in simply stunning condition. " He is pretty sure that the harness is upgraded, but will check. It does have the sometimes troublesome climate control rather than A/C, but a smallish 2.2 engine and the rugged 4 speed auto. £10k is twice the price of an average coupe these days mind you.

 

[carat 3.6]

Vendor states: "This

Vendor states:
"This outstanding 1995 Mercedes-Benz E220 C124 pillarless coupe, was comprehensively restored over an 8 year period by a Mercedes master technician. Painted 366 Azurite Blue outside and with 265 Champagne Quartz leather inside. Received a bare-metal respray with all corrosion removed. Head gasket replaced; new front and rear screens; rebuilt suspension and brakes; new 8-hole 15” diamond-cut Mercedes wheels with Michelin tyres. Virtually-unmarked interior with fresh headlining. Brand-new Denso air-conditioning compressor. In remarkable condition throughout. Many £1000s, and hundreds of hours, have been spent on the restoration.

Over the course of 8 years, the car was systematically stripped and rebuilt to a high standard, using genuine Mercedes parts. Highlights of the refurbishment include:
Take body back to bare steel shell
Remove all corrosion; replace and/or repair panels
Respray in 366 Azurite Blue; coat in ceramic lacquer
Waxoyl body cavities and underside
Overhaul cylinder head and replace head gasket
Fit new fuel pump, exhaust, all filters and service items
Fit new Denso air-conditioning compressor, v-belt and dryer
Fit new OEM engine under-tray
Renew brake lines, pads, discs and suspension components
Replace transmission shifter bushes
Fit new front and rear screens, plus various window/ door seals
Replace interior headlining and recover seats with OEM Mercedes trim
Fit new diamond-cut wheels; fit new Michelin tyres

The car comes complete with a used spare wheel in the boot and I have a matching brand new Mercedes boxed spare wheel too, that comes free with the car. It also has a genuine 1995 sales brochure for the W124 Coupe, and its owner's manual included. It is stored in Enfield at present. Contact me if you are interested in buying the car.

This Mercedes W124 Coupe is a superb example that has been carefully and thoughtfully restored by a Mercedes master technician. His efforts resulted in a car that is in simply stunning condition. " He is pretty sure that the harness is upgraded, but will check. It does have the sometimes troublesome climate control rather than A/C, but a smallish 2.2 engine and the rugged 4 speed auto. £10k is twice the price of an average coupe these days mind you.

Sounds good, and the wiring has probably been replaced, but still worth a quick check when your there as it is a known issue on these cars.

 

[Pontoneer]

I'm starting to feel that way about them. They are apparently running and driving, but looks like the owners of the various cars advertised like this have got frustrated and given up putting more time, money and effort into them.

My W124 has for a while had issues starting from cold . Sometimes it will start first time , sometimes it needs a couple of attempts , combined with catching it on the throttle when still cranking , and keeping it running for a minute or two . After that it will run reliably all day , will start instantly and gives no problems until left again for a day or more . It is never a major issue to get going , and , once going , it is always fine .

I have replaced plugs , leads , dizzy cap and rotor , fuel pressure regulator . Tired parking both uphill and down hill , suggestion was fuel check valves allowing fuel to drain back into tank , have held off replacing fuel pumps due to expense for proper ones , but the check valves are linked to them .

I always get it started within a couple of minutes , so has never been anything more than a minor inconvenience , and I'm not selling the car . It is just a niggle and I still like the car . Some cars can have minor issues but still are good cars . My car is now 30.5 years old , many 190s are older . Slightly older cars will often have minor issues .

 

[Pontoneer]

I had a long term problem with my 190e which I kept for 21 years. The cold start injector was providing excessive richness which made starting difficult. Once running it was perfect. I could find nothing wrong with the circuit that controlled the cold start injector so eventually I decided to just fool the ECU into thinking that the ambient temperature was higher than it really was by adding a fixed resistance in parallel with the engine temperature sensor. After a bit of experimentation with the resistor value it work well and had no impact on hot running. There is also a cold start air admittance valve which basically bypasses the normal idle air adjuster to raise idle speed when cold. It's a simple thermal valve bolted to the engine which opens when the temperature is cold and closes as the engine warms up with some assistance from an electrical heating element. Being at the back of the engine, this valve is a bit of a pig to get at and remove but it is adjustable and I found mine wasn't opening enough which will have compounded the excessive richness.

My take on the K Jetronic was that the original mechanical system was sound and well under stood by those experienced in fixing it. The Ke system which 190e had, retained the basic mechanical system but added an ECU to fine tune the mixture including partially controlling cold start. I discovered there were several iterations of exactly how the cold start enrichment was controlled and I suspected that MB had kept modifying it over the years to make it work better.

Useful info as my E220 often idles high once it 'catches' and randomly at other times !

 

[Pontoneer]

These K-Jets hate not being used (as mentioned above). Unless you know what you are doing, I would only buy a running engine that's been used every year.

I had been chasing a K-jet issue with my 300CE for years. It was a barn find at 28k miles, so it was not used that much. It had constant breakdowns, lots of expensive parts, etc.

I bit the bullet last year and I am now going down the route of a TE-Motorsport setup with a Maxx-ECU. I am also twin turboing it and throwing in a cosworth dogleg too (but that's because why not, I am already doing all the work).

View attachment 164454

Hi Dan , is that the car you swapped the interior from your 230CE into , and I bought the 2.3 engine from ?

My 190E ran great with that engine until I gave into a friend who kept pestering me to sell it to him ; I so regret selling that car but he was becoming a PITA .

Kind rehgards , Derek .

 

[Pontoneer]

Thanks. The vendor reckons his local mechanics love the challenge of older vehicles, pity they haven't fixed his

Pity you are so far away , Merparts up here in Port Glasgow ( Stef is the official Mercedes-Benz Club W201 Captain is one of the leading experts in these cars , and both he and his brother ran 190EVO 1 and 2 cars for a number of years ; what they don't know about these cars would fir on a postage stamp ) .

Down your way ( South Coast ) try Ollie ( Black C55 on here ) can't remember his company name , but he is also an expert on these cars .

Also , there was a breaker called Mercman , formerly in Southhampton , but I think now down Cornwall way , they are also knowledgeable about these cars and often will have parts for them .

There is another breaker in the south of England whose name escapes me , I will post back when he pops back into my head .

It often comes down to who you know rather than what you know ,

I wish you good luck .

 

[Pontoneer]

Michael , further to my message with Dan above ; I had a late 190LE with the 1.8 L engine . The CHG was gone and , after a few enquiries , I was advised not to repair it as the 1.8 engines were prone to that fault . Also , having driven it a bit , notwithstanding the fault , it was clear that the 1.8 was underpowered . I had previously had a normal 2.0 190E which drove well .

Anyway , after a bit or research , it was apparent that the 2.3L version of the 190 wsa the sweet spot . I'd already had a 190E 2.6 which was lovely , but thirsty . There were a couple of German members on the forum who had a 190E 2.3 ( not sold in the UK ) who claimed it would return 45 mpg , and given the modest power increase plus the torque increase , this seemed to be the way to go .

I bought the 2.3 engine and gearbox from Dan , and got the taller 2.6 diff from another member in the north of England , plus the correct propshaft and driveshafts from sellers in Germany , and bought the correct , front vented discs and pads to match the uprated engine ; took me a few months to sort out , but once I had it completed my GF of the time commented that it felt very powerful , and that it reminded her of her ex's RS 2000 ! The car proved to be very good on fuel and was very reliable .

A friend whose mother had a very early 1983 190 ( not E ) kept annoying me to sell him the body panels I had bought to perfect my car ( front wings plus rear arches and rear inner wheel wells ) , after about a year of pestering , I finally told him if he wanted the parts he'd have to buy the whole car , which he did .

I wish I'd never sold it , although I used the money to buy a W140 , plus I had my R129 and my Ponton at the time .

Following my separation from my ex , and leaving her the house I'd mostly paid for over our 21 years together , I let the SL and the Ponton go , kept the W140 as the most practical car , but changed it for the S124 as a more appropriate single daily driver . I have bought a smaller property and will look at getting another more interesting car once I retire ; that might be another Ponton or Fintail ( I've had both ) or might be another SL .

 

[DanMorgan]

Hi Dan , is that the car you swapped the interior from your 230CE into , and I bought the 2.3 engine from ?

My 190E ran great with that engine until I gave into a friend who kept pestering me to sell it to him ; I so regret selling that car but he was becoming a PITA .

Kind rehgards , Derek .

Hi Derek - Hope you are well!

It was indeed - you have good memory haha.

Hopefully I will have the car back in the summer - I've been enjoying my 129 SL500 over the last few years.

 

[alabbasi]

Buyer can pay whatever they want and seller can ask for whether they want. If the seller disclosed the problems and a price that you're not happy with, would you be happier for them not disclose the problem?

Make them an offer which they can take or leave. If they decide to leave, leave them alone and move on to the next car. They've already disclosed the problems and the price so they're not wasting your time

There are plenty of rust bucket cars for 1500 that will need 7k welding if you want to go the other way.

 

[MichaelMB]

Buyer can pay whatever they want and seller can ask for whether they want. If the seller disclosed the problems and a price that you're not happy with, would you be happier for them not disclose the problem?

Make them an offer which they can take or leave. If they decide to leave, leave them alone and move on to the next car. They've already disclosed the problems and the price so they're not wasting your time

There are plenty of rust bucket cars for 1500 that will need 7k welding if you want to go the other way.

Indeed. Since posting the question I eventually managed to talk to the seller. Reading between the lines,the car seems to have been in a rough state when they bought it and I think they have got fed up putting time and money into it, but it probably needs a fair bit more of both. It is priced as though pretty good. I think I prefer to pay good money for a good car than offend by trying to buy a rough running vehicle at a price that allows me to take it to a dealer and pay them to correct it. When I was young I bought wrecks and fixed them up. It's taken a long time to change, but now I want to start off with a good one, enjoy and maintain it.