Towing with a 300TE 4Matic

[Pontoneer]

Virtually all 'old' cars (particularly estates) could be fitted with a towbar. I had a 1971 Vauxhall Viva HC 1100 - about 60 bhp IIRC - and that had a towbar on it

Not just estates ; while we often towed with the Landy , my dad even towed with his Fintail , although with the Crighton on the back , it did look a bit much , but in those days there was no such thing as a VIN plate ; just a chassis no . Nobody bothered about such things back then , and I started towing circa 1976 with the 220/8 and a Thomson Gleneagle !

Edit - no that one is the Eccles Emerald ! The Crighton was actually bigger , and had three separate rooms within , plus both had real coal fires in the living room , and chimneys !

No harm ever came of it .





And here's my W123 280TE with the Abbey GT hooked up - great combo !



Also had a very substantial Watling towbar on the 500SEL , which was a very capable towcar , never towed a caravan with it , but did tow car transporter trailers with it a few times . Again 1986 car .

 

[Pontoneer]

Told you they don't know about towing!!! Risk it if you want......you can tow.....as long as it does not weigh anything!!! Hopefully you wont damage your car....there will be a reason Mercedes said no to towing on your car. I'll leave you experts to it!!!

They did not say no to towing - 124 estates were designed to tow and M-B had a range of factory fitted towbars in the options list - even 190E's can tow quite happily .

The legislation you refer to simply did not exist when these cars were made , hence they are not subjected to it .

Chassis plates did not show weights back then - they were in the handbook , and the brochures listed the towing weights ; estates had greater towing weights because they had hydropneumatic suspension .

the braked trailer limit for most W124 estates is 1900 Kg , varies with model .

 

[Pontoneer]

It's a £1000 fine.....comes under the same rules as overloading your car. The car....that particular one....not necessarily all of that model....has a towing weight of zero....so towing 1 kg is overloading it.
That said the police usually know nothing about towing so you would be very unlucky to be caught....but I would not do it due to the potential lack on insurance. Also I don't know if this car has a towbar....but if you go to have one fitted the first thing they do us look at that plate.....if they are doing their job properly they won't fit one as soon as they see that plate....our usual one certainly would not. I'd also be asking why that car can't tow...there will be a reason....so does he want to risk damaging something if he does tow.
I have customer who's Jeep cannot tow.....but it was only that one year where they fitted a slightly different gearbox due to supply issues.....things like that happen.

NOT for a pre 1998 car - none of that legislation applies : it did not exist when these cars were built , and legislation cannot be applied retrospectively to older cars .

 

[ALFAitalia]

So why does the OPs chassis plate say otherwise......legislation or not the blank area on that car plate means no towing. His car, his choice though.

From the DVLA site...

Towing weight and width limits​

Most cars have a maximum weight they can tow. It’s usually listed in the handbook or specification sheet.

Alternatively the vehicle’s ‘gross train weight’ may be listed on the vehicle identification number (VIN) plate on the car. This is normally under the bonnet or inside the driver’s door.

The gross train weight is the weight of the fully-loaded car plus fully-loaded trailer and must not be exceeded.
If your VIN plate does not list a train weight, you should not use your vehicle for towing.

 

[Pontoneer]

The handbooks tell the story , and besides weights , have a section on towing trailers , because the cars ARE designed to tow .

First , for the Op's car



And the section on towing





Also , for my W126 500SEL





There was simply no requirement to have weights on chassis plates in those days , sometimes there were weight limits printed on the towbars , which also became a requirement later , as it did on the trailers , but in days gone by such things did not exist .

 

[Pontoneer]

So why does the OPs chassis plate say otherwise......legislation or not the blank area on that car plate means no towing. His car, his choice though.

From the DVLA site...

Towing weight and width limits​

Most cars have a maximum weight they can tow. It’s usually listed in the handbook or specification sheet.

Alternatively the vehicle’s ‘gross train weight’ may be listed on the vehicle identification number (VIN) plate on the car. This is normally under the bonnet or inside the driver’s door.

The gross train weight is the weight of the fully-loaded car plus fully-loaded trailer and must not be exceeded.
If your VIN plate does not list a train weight, you should not use your vehicle for towing.

that ONLY applies to post 1998 vehicles - those rules did not apply before 1998 .

Your statement is only guidance , not law , hence it says 'should' and not 'must' , and it does not apply to older vehicles because it did not exist when they were made and originally registered .

There was no requirement for these weights to be stamped on plates before 1998 - it is that simple .

 

[Pontoneer]

And if further proof is required ; here is a factory photograph showing a W126 , none of which ever had these weights stamped on their plates , being tested for stability in a wind tunnel while towing ; that , along with all the towing data and guidance published in the manual PROVES that they were designed , and approved for towing .

Would you really think that Unimogs or G-Wagens were not designed to tow ?

 

[ALFAitalia]

Handbooks don't overule the plate of an individual car as as others have said many cars of this model and age DO have a GTW stated....they would all have it if they could all tow. The pre 1998 stuff is irrelevant... the only difference is after that date they had to show those weights on the car.....the law still applies ref GTW.

Towcraft's Guide to Towing | Motor Garage Towing Accessories

Towcraft's Guide to Towing

www.towcraft.co.uk

I give up....I'm wrong you are right..the official DVLA site (and other sites) must be wrong ..and I'm only the sales manager of a caravan main dealer so what do I know!

 

[Pontoneer]

Handbooks don't overule the plate of an individual car as as others have said many cars of this model and age DO have a GTW stated....they would all have it if they could all tow. The pre 1998 stuff is irrelevant... the only difference is after that date they had to show those weights on the car.....the law still applies ref GTW.

Towcraft's Guide to Towing | Motor Garage Towing Accessories

Towcraft's Guide to Towing

www.towcraft.co.uk

I give up....I'm wrong you are right..the official DVLA site (and other sites) must be wrong ..and I'm only the sales manager of a caravan main dealer so what do I know!

The 1998 cut off date is all important and the material you are referencing is wrong ; new legislation CANNOT be retrospectively applied to pre existing vehicles ; there are so many examples , I already mentioned seatbelts not being required on pre 1964 cars , earlier cars can also have white front indicators and red rear ones ; no need to have speedometers calibrated in both mph/kph ( my Ponton , being a 1957 car had KPH only , this was perfectly legal for a car of that age ) ; pre 1960 there is no standard for emissions ( only that there is no visibly excessive smoke ) ; no requirement for any exterior mirrors , so also exempts you from towing mirrors ; go back even further and you need only have a single tail lamp and single brake lamp , plus no requirement for indicators at all since you could give hand signals ; and of course the earliest cars had rear brakes only .

People have been caravanning since at least the 1920s , and you cannot impose later legislation on earlier vehicles if it did not exist when they were new . It does not mean that earlier vehicles cannot be used to tow when they always could in the past . there actually are clubs of enthusiasts for vintage ( 1920s ) cars and caravans who go on excursions , towing 100 year old caravans with 100 year old cars , virtually all of which will not meet many of the present day legislation , but they can , because they are exempt from it .

Legislation evolves with technology , but it is a fundamental principle that new legislation cannot be imposed on older vehicles . Go into VOSA and look at the MOT tester's manual , there are literally hundreds of exemptions on all manner of things as they apply to older vehicles .

Sadly , those sites you have mentioned fail to take account of exemptions for older vehicles , but they are just plain wrong , and it is their failure .

You pretty much admitted the point when you stated that "
The pre 1998 stuff is irrelevant... the only difference is after that date they had to show those weights on the car.....the law still applies ref GTW. " by implication , before that date there was NO REQUIREMENT to show any weights on the car ; therefore that does not bar them from towing - in days pre 1998 one went by the handbook - the absence of a plate did not mean a car could not tow ; there WERE cars that could not tow , even before 1998 - the Ford Ka comes to mind , but the plate is irrelevant because the manufacturer stated the car was not suitable for towing anything at all .

 

[Petrol Pete]

Why the F would anyone want to tow a caravan anyway ???





Only jokin' folks.

 

[ALFAitalia]

The 1998 cut off date is all important and the material you are referencing is wrong ; new legislation CANNOT be retrospectively applied to pre existing vehicles ; there are so many examples , I already mentioned seatbelts not being required on pre 1964 cars , earlier cars can also have white front indicators and red rear ones ; no need to have speedometers calibrated in both mph/kph ( my Ponton , being a 1957 car had KPH only , this was perfectly legal for a car of that age ) ; pre 1960 there is no standard for emissions ( only that there is no visibly excessive smoke ) ; no requirement for any exterior mirrors , so also exempts you from towing mirrors ; go back even further and you need only have a single tail lamp and single brake lamp , plus no requirement for indicators at all since you could give hand signals ; and of course the earliest cars had rear brakes only .

People have been caravanning since at least the 1920s , and you cannot impose later legislation on earlier vehicles if it did not exist when they were new . It does not mean that earlier vehicles cannot be used to tow when they always could in the past . there actually are clubs of enthusiasts for vintage ( 1920s ) cars and caravans who go on excursions , towing 100 year old caravans with 100 year old cars , virtually all of which will not meet many of the present day legislation , but they can , because they are exempt from it .

Legislation evolves with technology , but it is a fundamental principle that new legislation cannot be imposed on older vehicles . Go into VOSA and look at the MOT tester's manual , there are literally hundreds of exemptions on all manner of things as they apply to older vehicles .

Sadly , those sites you have mentioned fail to take account of exemptions for older vehicles , but they are just plain wrong , and it is their failure .

You pretty much admitted the point when you stated that "
The pre 1998 stuff is irrelevant... the only difference is after that date they had to show those weights on the car.....the law still applies ref GTW. " by implication , before that date there was NO REQUIREMENT to show any weights on the car ; therefore that does not bar them from towing - in days pre 1998 one went by the handbook - the absence of a plate did not mean a car could not tow ; there WERE cars that could not tow , even before 1998 - the Ford Ka comes to mind , but the plate is irrelevant because the manufacturer stated the car was not suitable for towing anything at all .

The legislation existed well before then....only the requirement to show that info changed. Same as some people think it'd ok to tow a van that's heavier than their car because their lets say 1600kg car shows a 2000 kg tow limit on the plate....it isn't. Those plates just say what's possible to be towed by the car without breaking it...not what's legal (see my previously posted link). It's a bit like your handbook saying the car can do 155mph....it can....but its certain not legal in the UK....IOM excepted.

Anyways....enough.

 

[Pontoneer]

The legislation existed well before then....only the requirement to show that info changed. Same as some people think it'd ok to tow a van that's heavier than their car because their lets say 1600kg car shows a 2000 kg tow limit on the plate....it isn't. Those plates just say what's possible to be towed by the car without breaking it...not what's legal (see my previously posted link). It's a bit like your handbook saying the car can do 155mph....it can....but its certain not legal in the UK....IOM excepted.

Anyways....enough.

It remains LEGAL to tow with these cars up to the specified limit , notwithstanding no GTW shown on the plate , because that was not a requirement when they were first registered. The limits are in the handbook , and as long as they are complied with , that is all that is required .

Vehicles are governed by the legislation that was in force at the time they were manufactured, and this prevails even if legislation changes at a later date . Whatever was legal at the date of manufacture or registration ( it varies ) remains legal , even if different rules apply to vehicles made or registered later .

Even then , different rules apply in different markets and post 1998 vehicles are not affected by EC rules if first used outside the EC , and even then they can be subsequently imported to an EC country and remain exempt from these EC regulations - hence a 1999 or later car that was first registered outside the EC can be imported to the UK , with or without a tow bar , can be fitted with any tow bar , EC approved or not , and can be used for towing regardless of whether or not the relevant weights are shown on the plates , because these vehicles are exempt .

By your logic , people wouldn’t be able to import left hand drive vehicles from abroad , because UK specification includes right hand drive , but we all know that is not so , and I know because I owned a LHD car for 38 years and drove it perfectly legally , without any seatbelts fitted , red and white indicators , and towed all manner of things behind it with the factory fitted towbar , the plate on which listed all the vehicles it was made for , including the 190SL !

 

[carat 3.6]

Pre 1998 vehicles do not need type approval to tow, you refer to the manufacturer's guidance.

This: "If your car was first used before 1 August 1998, your tow bar does not need to be type-approved." from here: Towing with a car

 

[MattFatPanda]

Does not apply to vehicles pre 1st August 1998 - those regulations did not exist before then and if any vehicle could tow when it was new ; it still can .

Except the legislation in 1998 is purely concerning the tow bar and its mounting to the car (i.e that both mounting and tow bar must be type approved), and has nothing to do with the type approval of the vehicle itself.

You can read the regulation 94/20/EC here - Directive - 94/20 - EN - EUR-Lex

The legislation for the type approval of motor vehicles came in to force in 1970 - directive 70/156/EEC which you can read here - Directive - 70/156 - EN - EUR-Lex

This does specifically say that manufacturers must supply gross train weight when getting type approval.
2.9. If the vehicle is used as a drawing vehicle, the technically permissible maximum laden weight of the combination stated by the manufacturer (and, where applicable, technically permissible maximum weight of trailer)

So I think this clinches it, as this would have come into effect in the UK from 1st Jan 1973 when the UK joined the EEC.

On the other hand it seems mad that Mercedes would submit two applications for every variant of the W124 for type approval, one with option 550 - Trailer Coupling and one without that option. I think I might try and get a copy of the type approval document for my chassis number from the Vehicle Certification Agency and see what that says on it…

 

[Pontoneer]

Except the legislation in 1998 is purely concerning the tow bar and its mounting to the car (i.e that both mounting and tow bar must be type approved), and has nothing to do with the type approval of the vehicle itself.

You can read the regulation 94/20/EC here - Directive - 94/20 - EN - EUR-Lex

The legislation for the type approval of motor vehicles came in to force in 1970 - directive 70/156/EEC which you can read here - Directive - 70/156 - EN - EUR-Lex

This does specifically say that manufacturers must supply gross train weight when getting type approval.
2.9. If the vehicle is used as a drawing vehicle, the technically permissible maximum laden weight of the combination stated by the manufacturer (and, where applicable, technically permissible maximum weight of trailer)

So I think this clinches it, as this would have come into effect in the UK from 1st Jan 1973 when the UK joined the EEC.

On the other hand it seems mad that Mercedes would submit two applications for every variant of the W124 for type approval, one with option 550 - Trailer Coupling and one without that option. I think I might try and get a copy of the type approval document for my chassis number from the Vehicle Certification Agency and see what that says on it…

Well , that would appear to apply to post 1973 vehicles first registered or used in an EU country , but vehicles first used elsewhere ( even if the same model ) would be treated as imports and therefore exempt , as would vehicles first registered before 1973 .

Mercedes do specify train weights , kerb weights , axle loads and maximum permissible towing weights in their various handbooks - but much depends on which handbook you have ! Even for your 300TE-4matic , some W124 handbooks state a maximum permissible trailer load of 2100Kg , while other handbooks for the same vehicle state 1900 Kg ; this is very strange .

 

[NotAnumber]

Get another plate made up with the weights shown in the manual.
You might want to get your VIN added properly at the same time. The car may be regarded as a ringer if most of the VIN is shown blank like that.

 

[Pontoneer]

Get another plate made up with the weights shown in the manual.
You might want to get your VIN added properly at the same time. The car may be regarded as a ringer if most of the VIN is shown blank like that.

The VIN is , in addition to the various plates around the car , stamped into the firewall and often the chassis leg under the bonnet .

The VIN plate is just how the car left the factory and that was how it was at the time of manufacture .

 

[carat 3.6]

Same as some people think it'd ok to tow a van that's heavier than their car because their lets say 1600kg car shows a 2000 kg tow limit on the plate....it isn't. Those plates just say what's possible to be towed by the car without breaking it...not what's legal

That isn't illegal, towing 2000kg with a 1600kg car is fine as long as it's within the cars towing capacity. It was only guidance that the tow vehicle should be heavier.

For example I regularly tow 3.5t with a 1.9t vehicle, whilst not recommended there is no law that prevents me doing that.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Until you kill someone when it gets into a snake that your car does not have the mass to control. Plenty of laws against that. Check you have insurance at that weight too.....you probably don't. 1600kg over kerbweight? No thanks. The towing limit ie 3500kg is what the manufacturer says your car will tow, not what is a safe tow.

 

[del320]

An oldie but goodie...

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