Towing with a 300TE 4Matic

[carat 3.6]

Until you kill someone when it gets into a snake that your car does not have the mass to control. Plenty of laws against that. Check you have insurance at that weight too.....you probably don't. 1600kg over kerbweight? No thanks. The towing limit ie 3500kg is what the manufacturer says your car will tow, not what is a safe tow.

As I said not recommended but perfectly legal, fully insured too as it's for business use. Unladen toyota hilux with a fully loaded 3.5t 3 axle trailer.

As to the snaking effect if the trailer load is properly distributed that shouldn't ever happen, but if it did happen a decent driver will correct it before it gets out of hand.

The ultimate dangerous combo is seen on the motorway everyday, 3.5t car trailer behind an empty recovery truck. Absolutely no weight over the rear axle of the truck but with 3.5t pushing it around from behind, still perfectly legal though.....

 

[BTB 500]

As I said not recommended but perfectly legal, fully insured too as it's for business use. Unladen toyota hilux with a fully loaded 3.5t 3 axle trailer.

As to the snaking effect if the trailer load is properly distributed that shouldn't ever happen, but if it did happen a decent driver will correct it before it gets out of hand.

The ultimate dangerous combo is seen on the motorway everyday, 3.5t car trailer behind an empty recovery truck. Absolutely no weight over the rear axle of the truck but with 3.5t pushing it around from behind, still perfectly legal though.....

I pointed out in another thread that multi-axle trailers (which anything big/heavy will be) are inherently more stable to start with.

People have been towing horse boxes safely at over 100% match for many decades. Companies like Land Rover make their 3.5 tonne towing limit a major selling feature - they would hardly do this if it was remotely dodgy from a legal or insurance POV. Because as soon as anyone got in trouble for it they'd be taken to court.

 

[BTB 500]

The Discovery shown above by LR has a kerbweight of around 2300 kg btw.

 

[carat 3.6]

I pointed out in another thread that multi-axle trailers (which anything big/heavy will be) are inherently more stable to start with.

People have been towing horse boxes safely at over 100% match for many decades. Companies like Land Rover make their 3.5 tonne towing limit a major selling feature - they would hardly do this if it was remotely dodgy from a legal or insurance POV. Because as soon as anyone got in trouble for it they'd be taken to court.

Exactly that, if it was illegal they couldn't make it a selling point.

It amazes me the amount of people who don't understand the laws surrounding towing trailers, I even had one person absolutely sure the limit of 3.5t included the towing vehicle.

 

[MattFatPanda]

Well , that would appear to apply to post 1973 vehicles first registered or used in an EU country , but vehicles first used elsewhere ( even if the same model ) would be treated as imports and therefore exempt , as would vehicles first registered before 1973 .

Mercedes do specify train weights , kerb weights , axle loads and maximum permissible towing weights in their various handbooks - but much depends on which handbook you have ! Even for your 300TE-4matic , some W124 handbooks state a maximum permissible trailer load of 2100Kg , while other handbooks for the same vehicle state 1900 Kg ; this is very strange .

Sadly my 124 being registered in the UK in 1990 is not going to be exempt.

From what I can tell by the letter of the law, neither what is written in the handbook nor what is on the VIN plate are actually important, it’s what Mercedes submitted as the GTW when it was type approved that really matters. Annoyingly this doesn’t seem to be a document I can readily find online

It’s very interesting that the government website says

Most cars have a maximum weight they can tow. It’s usually listed in the handbook or specification sheet.

Alternatively the vehicle’s ‘gross train weight’ may be listed on the vehicle identification number (VIN) plate on the car. This is normally under the bonnet or inside the driver’s door.

If your VIN plate does not list a train weight, you should not use your vehicle for towing.

When the law definition of should not is

SHOULD NOT means that there may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances when particular behaviour is acceptable or even useful, but the full implications should be understood and the case carefully weighed before implementing any behaviour described with this label.

So “should not” does not necessarily mean “can not” in law. In fact it specifically means there might be circumstances in which you can…

 

[carat 3.6]

Sadly my 124 being registered in the UK in 1990 is not going to be exempt.

From what I can tell by the letter of the law, neither what is written in the handbook nor what is on the VIN plate are actually important, it’s what Mercedes submitted as the GTW when it was type approved that really matters. Annoyingly this doesn’t seem to be a document I can readily find online

It’s very interesting that the government website says

Most cars have a maximum weight they can tow. It’s usually listed in the handbook or specification sheet.

Alternatively the vehicle’s ‘gross train weight’ may be listed on the vehicle identification number (VIN) plate on the car. This is normally under the bonnet or inside the driver’s door.

If your VIN plate does not list a train weight, you should not use your vehicle for towing.

When the law definition of should not is

SHOULD NOT means that there may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances when particular behaviour is acceptable or even useful, but the full implications should be understood and the case carefully weighed before implementing any behaviour described with this label.

So “should not” does not necessarily mean “can not” in law. In fact it specifically means there might be circumstances in which you can…

Have you asked the dealer what you can tow? I would think if you gave them your chassis number they can tell you if your car is approved to tow or not, as you say "should not" doesn't mean you cant.

 

[MattFatPanda]

Have you asked the dealer what you can tow? I would think if you gave them your chassis number they can tell you if your car is approved to tow or not, as you say "should not" doesn't mean you cant.

Worth a try! I’ll give them a call tomorrow.

 

[jotter22]

GTW and towing should be in the same chat as Politics, religion and football! , I work in the aggregate industry and you would not believe some of the contraptions and belief's people have about this!

Thanks Tony.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Some just ignore facts and common sense too. The law is less clear about towing over kerb weight...but common sense should make it obvious.....we've all seen caravans etc smashed to pieces on the motorway.....nearly everyone over been involved with was well over kerb ( the others wre poorly loaded or had nose weights no where near the cars quoted....or 100kg whichever is lower)....but there is no ambiguity about towing over plated weight.....if the nunber on the plate is 0000 or ---- or the same as the GTW above it you CANNOT tow. "Should not" means must not in this case. The phrase should not is used on the government website on the subject of speed that I was looking at.....when towing a caravan on the motorway you should not exceed 60 mph.....I dont that the you saying the law said "should not" would be much of a defence. Yes I said that I would leave this thread to the obvious experts....I really will now!
From my experience dealers know very little about towing....I certainly didn't when I worked at one.

 

[carat 3.6]

"Should not" and "Must not" do matter in legal terms, and laws are carefully worded for that reason. Must not means you cant do something, should not is used as guidance or where there are exceptions.

A good example is on the next page HERE which says this:

The loaded trailer:

• must not weigh over 750kg
• should not weigh more than 50% of your car’s weight

And you'll notice the speed limits HERE are termed with "must not" also:

You must not drive faster than the speed limit for the type of road and your type of vehicle. The speed limit is the absolute maximum - it does not mean it’s safe to drive at this speed in all conditions.

 

[MattFatPanda]

...but there is no ambiguity about towing over plated weight.....if the nunber on the plate is 0000 or ---- or the same as the GTW above it you CANNOT tow.

Except find me any legislation that says this. I have provided links to both pieces of legislation I can find that are relevant to this conversation in my previous post. Neither of which mention “plated” weight at all.

The 1998 legislation on tow bars only says that tow bars and their mounting must be type approved and E marked.

The 1970 legislation on vehicle type approval says that manufacturers must supply the gross train weight when getting the vehicle type approved. Not that they must display it on the vehicle.

Please find me the piece of legislation that specifically says that if 0000 or in this case ———— is written on the VIN plate you can’t tow. And I’m not talking about the government advice on their website, I’m talking about the actual laws/legislation that say this.

 

[jotter22]

If a vehicle pulled on to my weighbridge for material with a trailer and the vin displays ---- in the GTW line, He would not be loaded.

Thanks Tony.