V8 Ford Mustangs Going Cheap

[Rory]

I disagree and the price I quoted is EXCLUDING:

Total Base MSRP and Options does not usually include sales or other taxes, tags, registration fees, government fees, smog certificates, emission testing charges, finance charges, and dealer document preparation charges. Pricing and availability varies based on but not limited to Region, Options, Dealer, Make, Model, and Costs. This data is provided for informational purposes only and actual pricing information may only be obtained from your local dealer.
Destination Charge: Cost of transporting the vehicle from the assembly plant to the dealership. Depends on variables (such as weight) related to the type of vehicle. This is a flat fee established by the manufacturer and is not negotiable


The figures quoted by most folks that want to wave the US price differential will usually exclude all the additional costs that these many taxes will impose, plus it will differ from state to state.

Most Americans prefer to walk into a dealer and buy a new car that is on the showroom floor, so there will be wiggle room to negotiate but I strongly disagree with your figures. There is import duty, there is VAT and there are also other costs taxes and I would be very very interested to know where on earth you get the figure of £16,000 for a new Ford Mustang V8 coupe from? To quote Victor...... I do not believe it.

Regards
John

You're getting yourself very mixed up!

There's only one set of taxes to pay - either US tax, or, if the car is brought to the UK, UK tax - not both!

In the US *all* of the stuff you listed typically adds about 10% to base price. There's actually not much there - read the list; it includes things like Finance Charges which of course you only pay if you take finance.

I looked at a random Ford dealer in Dallas and they had 2008 Mustangs starting at $19490 - it also looks like that dealer has a special $1K off, although it isn't clear if the price is before or after that discount. You do have to add the charges you mentioned, but that would be (I reckon) a couple of $K. Of course if the car is being brought to the UK, then those charges (except perhaps delivery to the dealer) don't apply.

 

[recycled]

OK a small Australian oil company I've never heard of. I stand corrected.

unfortunately i deal in global markets and hiding in the UK will not exempt us from world affairs be it in the UK ,australia or the US and all oil companies were small at one time before all the mergers started
e.g total-fina-elf
chevron-gulf-texaco
exxon-esso-mobil e.t.c
conoco-phillips

 

[Mr E]

Do they ? i doubt it. the ones who do are in the dustbin.
the ones who want you to think they are, are cleaning out your pockets.
most cost comes from design/testing and development which is not included in the manufacturing cost

As one who makes a living in the automotive industry, you're way wrong I'm afraid.

Anyone who thinks they can produce a car in the UK for under £1000 is in cloud-cookoo land...

Manufacturing - for most vehicle manufacturers - breaks even once all costs are factored in (R&D, safety, plant, etc). The money is made by the finance arms - check out GMAC and Ford Finance.

What happens now with the losses is the rounds of re-financing that go to support pension and healthcare deficits in the US. That doesn't seem to affect the non-US manufacturers.

Take Ford - Ford of Europe usually makes a (slim) profit (as the money side is recorded separately). Exceptional costs and charges can dip this into loss but on the whole it remains constant. It's the corporate liabilities - healthcare, pensions, financing - that drag the profit down.

 

[hawk20]

goalposts to move? here are some
banks losses

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080304/tbs-us-usa-fed-kohn-03c9bed.html

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/columnists/article.html?in_article_id=427455&in_page_id=19


http://business.timesonline.co.uk/t...ectors/banking_and_finance/article3436379.ece

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30400-1307645,00.html

We all know American banks lost money on sub-prime mortgages -but that wasn't the point.

Notice that your last link on HCBC menbtions losses in America but even then shows huge profits overall. I quote directly from your link: -
"The UK's other major banks - Barclays, Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS), Lloyds TSB and Halifax and Bank of Scotland - have already reported their annual results.
Together with a number of smaller High Street lenders, they have made an estimated collective loss of about £5bn from the US sub-prime meltdown.
But despite this it has made £12.2bn in annual pre-tax profits, up 10% on the previous year."

Back to Mustangs ........

 

[recycled]

exaclty what do you do in this industry if i may ask? @ MR E

 

[recycled]

We all know American banks lost money on sub-prime mortgages -but that wasn't the point.

Notice that your last link on HCBC menbtions losses in America but even then shows huge profits overall. I quote directly from your link: -
"The UK's other major banks - Barclays, Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS), Lloyds TSB and Halifax and Bank of Scotland - have already reported their annual results.
Together with a number of smaller High Street lenders, they have made an estimated collective loss of about £5bn from the US sub-prime meltdown.
But despite this it has made £12.2bn in annual pre-tax profits, up 10% on the previous year."

Back to Mustangs ........

Do not change the goalposts please.
I said banks lose money. you said put up a link which i did. glad you agree as stated above.

"we all know american banks lost money"

I never said i was talking about the UK alone which you assumed automatically.
anyway that is besides the point. you were accusing me earlier of moving the posts

 

[hawk20]

What happens now with the losses is the rounds of re-financing that go to support pension and healthcare deficits in the US. That doesn't seem to affect the non-US manufacturers.

Take Ford - Ford of Europe usually makes a (slim) profit (as the money side is recorded separately). Exceptional costs and charges can dip this into loss but on the whole it remains constant. It's the corporate liabilities - healthcare, pensions, financing - that drag the profit down.

Yes. The figures for Chrysler -at the time when MB unloaded it - were quite staggering. There were more retired and redundant workers claiming pensions and healthcare benefits from Chrysler than its total number of current employees. Towed the company under.

 

[recycled]

exactly my point. so the true cost making the actual car is diluted by pensions and healthcare

 

[Rory]

Yes. The figures for Chrysler -at the time when MB unloaded it - were quite staggering. There were more retired and redundant workers claiming pensions and healthcare benefits from Chrysler than its total number of current employees.

For any large, long established, company then that's bound to be the case, surely?

British Airways is often described as a pension fund that runs an airline on the side.

 

[hawk20]

exactly my point. so the true cost making the actual car is diluted by pensions and healthcare

Well if you can get the Unions to give up pensions and health care, I am sure carmakers will be glad to drop them out of costs of making cars. In the meantime all our pensions and company funded healthcare are part of someones costs.

 

[recycled]

same as council tax that pays or retirements and pensions of council workers

 

[recycled]

Well if you can get the Unions to give up pensions and health care, I am sure carmakers will be glad to drop them out of costs of making cars. In the meantime all our pensions and company funded healthcare are part of someones costs.

encourage private pensions then and the opt out policy as well

 

[hawk20]

For any large, long established, company then that's bound to be the case, surely?

British Airways is often described as a pension fund that runs an airline on the side.

It's rarer than you might think. For a start in UK and Europe paying for private healthcare of car production workers is rare. For a second, on pensions, for past retirees (claiming) to outnumber current employees usually only occurs where there have been large redundancy programmes and/or rapid automation.

 

[Mr E]

exaclty what do you do in this industry if i may ask? @ MR E

Confidentiality prevents me from going into detail, but a senior consultant to a number of OEM vehicle manufacturers such as Ford, GM, MB (DC), VAG.

 

[Mr E]

The big problem, as has been stated on a number of threads elsewhere, is that Europe has a generally good social welfare structure whereas the US doesn't. Companies need to give generous pensions and healthcare benefits in order to attract and retain resource in the US, and union power is so strong that those deals are incredibly hard to break. Quite often these benefits are accrued during service and are in place even when laid off; plus they remain in place during retirement too.

Without the cost of these benefits, the car companies would be in better shape than they are - as I said, on manufacturing operations they break even, roughly, and make money on the finance deal.

 

[glojo]

Don't forget that the $26K price is list, so the cars are probably pretty heavily discounted from that.

You're getting yourself very mixed up!
.

No I'm not.
I defy anyone to get a substantial discount from this price that will get it anywhere near the $16,000 mark. We are seeing links where 2007 vehicles are being advertised at $16999 and the selling dealer talks about sticking on 'Go faster stripes' but we are talking new.

I understand what your saying about only one lot of taxes but that whole issue is a minefield and I stand by what I said regarding when I researched this topic when thinking of buying a boat a very rough guideline was a straight comaparison of $ = £ after ALL the shipping, taxes and other expenses are taken into account. There are all sorts of registration costs.

Talk is always cheaper than action and I was always hearing about how cheap it was to buy a product but when you wave dollar bills in front of someone it all of a sudden works out quite expensive.

John

 

[recycled]

Confidentiality prevents me from going into detail, but a senior consultant to a number of OEM vehicle manufacturers such as Ford, GM, MB (DC), VAG.

i respect that

 

[recycled]

That is just an amazing statement. Both are genuinely at risk of going bankrupt. Do a google and see what you can find about Fiat, Renault and others over recent years. Mitsubishi. Smart.
.

it is amazing isn't it.
apart for GM who is really losing money?

Revenue net income
Ford $173billion $2.6bn
Daimler 99bn euros 8bn
Gm $ 181bn minus 38bn
Porsche euros 6-7 bn
Toyota $202bn 13bn
Honda $ 94bn 5bn
Mitsubishi 8bn yen
Vw 104bn 2.75bn
Fiat 58bn euros 2bn euros
Renault 41bneuros 3bn euros



From 2007 manufacturers sites

 

[recycled]

on manufacturing operations they break even, roughly, and make money on the finance deal.

I thought it was the finance conpanies that make the money on finance deals?
They pay for the car in full, and you pay them. except if you go buy the dealers finance e.g peugeot or merc which is not advisable.
maybe i am wrong.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I thought it was the finance conpanies that make the money on finance deals?
They pay for the car in full, and you pay them. except if you go buy the dealers finance e.g peugeot or merc which is not advisable.
maybe i am wrong.

The reference to the finance companies making money is the subsidaries of the manufacturers. If you have the finance deal (£419 pm) on a new ML through a UK Mercedes dealer, the finance will be through DCUK themselves.