w123 article in Practical Classics

[millo777]

I just picked up the Sept issue of practical classics and read the 4 page article about the w123. Lovely pics of the 280ce used for the british motor show of that year, but it seems they let Mark Cosovic have a bit too much input. The whole article reads like a scare story to put people off buying these cars. Somebody really needs to point out to the editor that Cosovic is actually a bit of a tool and no, a bit of play of steering isn't going to cost you £2,000 to fix, and a sunroof can actually be repaired for less than £1,200.

 

[Deleted member 11979]

I didn't read it but generally the magazine is pretty down to earth.

Shame about that isn't it, but sometimes I find that people that make their living specialising in a certain item can get a bit too precious about it, and predict doom and gloom if you don't buy a perfect version, probably to line their pockets in some way!

 

[Dieselman]

But of course if you buy a Cosovic "restored" car...

 

[kaapstad]

But of course if you buy a Cosovic "restored" car...

God forbid! I have seen the so called restored cars and spoken to the owners, it seems nobody has anything positive to say!

 

[neilrr]

But of course if you buy a Cosovic "restored" car...

God forbid! I have seen the so called restored cars and spoken to the owners, it seems nobody has anything positive to say!

Still on the internet wide anti Mark Cosovich campaign, eh kaapy?

As I understand it, you've never met him, never spoken to him & he's never worked on your car, yet you denigrate him across UK MB forums.

Please tell us the real reason why & not some crap about people who've met other people saying his work really isn't very good.

 

[jaymanek]

Great guy to deal with is Mark.. Although he can talk for Wales.

 

[Dieselman]

Still on the internet wide anti Mark Cosovich campaign, eh kaapy?

As I understand it, you've never met him, never spoken to him & he's never worked on your car, yet you denigrate him across UK MB forums.

Please tell us the real reason why & not some crap about people who've met other people saying his work really isn't very good.

I've seen a number of marque specialist dealers talk up the repair costs of the cars they "restore" for sale at high prices and some of the end result is poor.

As has been said, how can a steering repair cost £2,000?

 

[kaapstad]

Still on the internet wide anti Mark Cosovich campaign, eh kaapy?

If its help to other, yes. No point in more W123 fans having to go through the pain others have already been through is there? You seen a "restored" car yet?

 

[Screwdriver]

You seen a "restored" car yet?

I have. And it was a truly superb coupe on Regent street. The owner wouldn't stop praising Mark's attention to detail. It was that experience, and speaking to another one of his customers prior to contacting him, that convinced me that the man knows his W123s.

I met him and my impression stayed the same. He's a bit of a perfectionist and is tough on anyone trying to cut corners. I gave him a small budget and he agreed to do service work on the car within it.

I'll be sure to post my review on these forums.

 

[a111r]

What work did you have done?
What was the cost, if it's not rude to ask?

 

[Screwdriver]

Please stay tuned - I will update this thread just as soon as work commences. I've asked for service work to be carried out, not a full restoration.

 

[Screwdriver]

What work did you have done?
What was the cost, if it's not rude to ask?

After a series of discussions spanning several hours, here is what will be done to the car. In essence, a full underbody mechanical restoration:

1) Full brake component renewal/ replacement
2) Rear axle drive shaft replacement (1) and renewal (1)
3) Full SLS suspension renewal including new metal pipes, nitrogen accumulators, strut housing. Full front suspension replacement
4) Air conditioning repair and restoration.
5) Full underbody rubber component renewal including all hoses and sub frame bushes
6) Front crankshaft seal replacement
7) Radiator service and hose replacement
8) Fuel injector timing adjustment/ valve clearance adjustment
9) Differential and Transmission service
10) Steering box adjustment with bushing replacement
11) Front and Centre exhaust replacement
12) Full bead blast clean and powder coating of all underbody components with wax protection.
13) Several other tweaks and extras thrown in to renew the car.

My question to you is, what you would pay for all this?

 

[Scott_F]

My question to you is, what you would pay for all this?

My question to you is, is all of that work really necessary ?

I'm not saying that it's always the case or that it's necessarily the case here, but it is not uncommon for experts to talk clients into having work done that is of no great urgency and offers only marginal benefit in relation to the considerable sum spent.

 

[Screwdriver]

You didn't answer my question but I'll answer yours. The intent here is to keep the car for life. To answer more specifically, some of it was very necessary. Examples:

1) Master Cylinder seal failed. Brake fluid went from clear to dark brown overnight and the pedal pressure disappeared. Rear calipers were seized.

2) Rear axle boot cracked with loss of all lubrication

3) SLS suspension malfunctioned with ride height raised and with pipes corroded through

4) A/C not working

5) Play in steering

6) Front and Centre exhaust corroded

Any garage in London would charge me serious money to repair these issues. I estimated around £5K for Mercedes parts and £75 per hour labour, maybe more. It was then a question of paying more to replacing or renew everything, and go over the car with a fine tooth comb.

 

[grober]

That's a lot of work which I imagine will be well into 4 figures. I'm sure that the work is warranted- question you have to ask yourself - is the rest of the car's condition- chassis and body work, exterior and interior trim ---commensurate with that level of expenditure?
Ultimately its usually the major body structural condition [ vis a vis rust] that determines the long term longevity of these cars.

 

[Screwdriver]

You're correct. Fortunately, my W123 is 99% rust free. There is some surface rust on the suspension components and ancillary areas but otherwise all clear. No rust on the doors, sills, floor pan, chassis or panels. The interior was described as near perfect. I would rate it 9/10. The engine bay is also in excellent condition with only the front crankshaft seal leaking (also to be replaced in this restoration). Same for the outside appearance.

This restoration is purely mechanical, meant to renew all mechanical and perishable rubber parts and protect the underside of the car for the future. I must thank you - I've been questioning my decision to spend so much on the car. I can say that its starting to make more sense. Still curious what you would you pay for this job?

 

[grober]

Pricing such a comprehensive mechanical restoration is complex. The engineering is pretty well known and not beyond the expertise of a good mechanic working at standard labour rates. However someone who knows these cars well and is familiar with the operations involved should be able to give a pretty accurate breakdown of the labour time involved from experience. Parts can sometimes be difficult to source going through the familiar -- 1 "pricey when new and supplied through Mercedes" 2. falling in price as pattern parts become available and 3. increasing in price again as they become more difficult to source during the vehicle's life cycle . That's often where you will benefit from a marque specialist's access to parts or knowledge of where to source them. In terms of many mechanical repairs you can benefit from the |"wholesale approach" . A comprehensive rear end rebuild for example can benefit from cost reduction if the complete rear subframe removal may render several rebuild jobs [ differential/drive shafts /suspension brakelines] much easier to access. i.e the price each of these jobs performed individually means they would cost more than when tackled together. One would also expect a "package price" due to the extent of work contracted. In the end it depends on how much you value the expertise and conscientious approach of the person working on your pride and joy. The only way to effectively price such a job I would suggest is to get several quotes from several MB restoration specialists.

 

[a111r]

After a series of discussions spanning several hours, here is what will be done to the car. In essence, a full underbody mechanical restoration:

1) Full brake component renewal/ replacement
2) Rear axle drive shaft replacement (1) and renewal (1)
3) Full SLS suspension renewal including new metal pipes, nitrogen accumulators, strut housing. Full front suspension replacement
4) Air conditioning repair and restoration.
5) Full underbody rubber component renewal including all hoses and sub frame bushes
6) Front crankshaft seal replacement
7) Radiator service and hose replacement
8) Fuel injector timing adjustment/ valve clearance adjustment
9) Differential and Transmission service
10) Steering box adjustment with bushing replacement
11) Front and Centre exhaust replacement
12) Full bead blast clean and powder coating of all underbody components with wax protection.
13) Several other tweaks and extras thrown in to renew the car.

My question to you is, what you would pay for all this?

Cheers for the interesting breakdown. I recall you've had this 123 from new?

As you body's so good, you must have looked after it well (...so I agree with Scott F in that respect, which you won't want comments on).

Very Difficult to price up without knowing the exact work, cost of parts or his labour rate, extra work uncovered etc.
This comes from someone who's previously done a DIY 'ground up' total resto on a rusty wreck, btw. Not an MB.

But I won't cop out. I'll have a guess, just for fun mind.
£9000, +/- 30%?

No need to reply, as your post count is on 123!

 

[Screwdriver]

I haven't had the car from new. I've owned it since early 2015. But you're right, the body has been looked after well. Sadly, the underside of the car was not.

Cosovich charges 65 an hour for labor and the parts will cost around 2.5K. Anything uncovered is covered And that's a good guess!

 

[Screwdriver]

Before/ After

Quick update - As it turns out, the car needed more restoration attention than the list I shared. Here are a couple before/ after pictures: