W203 C200K problems starting and hesitation

[pangster]

I'm having some issues with my car. When I attempt to start it in the morning - it takes quite a few seconds of cranking to get it going and once it eventually does kick into life there is a strong smell of petrol. The car will drive ok (once it's started) although when I try to accelerate from a cruise it feels as though there is a distinct lack of power. Everytime I shut it off and go to start it again 9 times out of 10 it is the same drama. Cranking for 5-10 seconds and then kicks into life. Battery and starter are fine as is the EIS as that has just recently been changed and these were all checked over by the MB dealers. I've had it on generic a code reader at my local mechanics and there is no codes or pending codes associated with it.

Having searched the forums - I'm lead to believe it is likely to be one (or all :roll eyes of the following:

Camshaft position sensor
Crankshaft position sensor

There are two camshaft position sensors on the engine (intake and exhaust) - is it common for one to go more than the other?? or are they both likely culprits?

Does anyone know the part numbers for the above??

Thanks for your help in advance!!

 

[AMG19]

Sounds like a fuel related issue - possibly a leak causing a lack of fuel pressure making it difficult to start the car - this would also explain the lack of power.
Crankshaft position sensors tend to just go and the car would occasionally decide not to start at all also the sensors should bring on an EML.

 

[pangster]

Sounds like a fuel related issue - possibly a leak causing a lack of fuel pressure making it difficult to start the car - this would also explain the lack of power.
Crankshaft position sensors tend to just go and the car would occasionally decide not to start at all also the sensors should bring on an EML.

thanks for the reply!!.. there doesn't appear to be a leak anywhere.. and when it eventually starts there is a smell of fuel to begin with (and then it settles down to normal within a few seconds).. I had a google and it seems that it could be fuel filter?..

I had initially thought it was the cam or crank sensor as that is what other threads with similar symptoms seemed to point to.. although this thread:

Long Cranking Problem, Hard to start.. - MBWorld.org Forums

Has fairly similar symptoms (except no mention of lack of power) and his ended up being the fuel filter.. the only concern is that if it was fuel related I would have expected to have error codes i.e. fuel trim etc..

 

[pangster]

I've just nipped out and taken a video of the issue(s) I'm experiencing as I appreciate trying to hazard a guess over the internet can be tricky... I'll post a link when it's available! - thanks for the help and replies so far!

 

[pangster]

here's a link to the video on YouTube:

[YOUTUBE]Ham7qpyfpIY[/YOUTUBE]

 

[pangster]

Just been out for a drive to try and get more information which might help identify the issue or rule out others....

Once the car starts - it generally drives ok under partial throttle.. there is a strong hesitancy (almost feels like resistance or hitting a brick wall or someone is braking for you) when you attempt to apply full throttle.. this doesn't seem to be speed related i.e. it happens at 30-50 and 60-70.. the car will generally run fine ok under partial load/throttle - it accelerates fairly smoothly and picks up speed reasonably well.. there are no check engine lights/malfunction codes and it doesn't cut out at traffic lights/stops (the idle is steady)..

it's just the issue with long cranking and hesitancy/slight misfire? under full load...

does anyone have any ideas?

 

[pangster]

I appreciate that it isn't easy trying to diagnose things over the internet and at best all I was hoping for was an indication as to what any potential issue could have been.

I'm quickly loosing patience with this car as it was only in the dealers last month getting the EIS replaced:

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/sh...ad.php?t=99495

Prior to this the car drove fine and we had no issues. We then had the EIS issue - which has now been resolved (i.e. EIS replaced and keys/fobs work) - but now we have this new issue. I remember reading something on the invoice around the EIS being replaced and faults cleared from front SAM - but I'm guessing this is unrelated to the current problems??

Worryingly enough - after we got the car back from the dealer (and after driving it for a day or so) - we had 3 errors/malfunctions show up on the dash (ESP, BAS and ABS? i think...) - but the car drove fine. We were just about to call the dealer - when the faults cleared (2 or 3 driving cycles from first showing to faults clearing) and they've since not re-appeared.

It's looking increasingly like the only realistic option is to get it booked backed into the dealers and see if they can diagnose the problem (unless anyone can recommend a good idependant in Edinburgh???) - as the alternative at throwing money at sensors etc in the hope that a blanket approach fixes it is a little less appealing - especially after just shelling out c£700 for fixing it recently!!

 

[pangster]

I'm a bit disappointed and surprised with the lack of response or any comments in this thread. I'm a member of several car forums and never not had a response to a question before.

I know it is hard to diagnose problems over the internet - but the fact no one has even taken the time to hazard a guess or indicate they've had similar issues is a little disheartening..

Either way the car is now booked into the dealers for monday to *hopefully* get diagnosed correctly.

Given the recent issues - I think I'll be looking to get the car sorted and then move it on and learn from this lesson. I think there is a misunderstanding that when you buy a Mercedes Benz then you're buying a quality, reliable, prestigious product - where in reality all you have is a money pit. I've had several cars from different manufacturers over the years (BMW, Audi, Toyota, Ford etc) and still have an Audi A3 1.8T (thank god!!) as this has been the most unreliable and costly car I've ever had the misfortune of owning.

In fact, the disappointment of owning this car has only just been eclipsed by the lack of enthusiasm to help offer guidance or information to fellow owners on here.

 

[mauno]

what year and which engine? m111 or m272

 

[pangster]

what year and which engine? m111 or m272

thanks for the reply - it's a 2003 (W203) and 1.8 compressor (M271)

 

[mauno]

are you sure its m111? whats the vin

 

[pangster]

are you sure its m111? whats the vin

sorry - not sure why I was confused!! - just checked and the engine code is M271

 

[mauno]

ok,then we can rule out the leaking camshaft sensor which is an m111 fault. in this case I would go for WIS and stardiag

 

[pangster]

UPDATE:
The dealers just called to advise that they've hooked the car up to STAR and run the diagnostics and the only fault/error codes it's coming back with are relating to boost pressure. Apparantly they've identified several pipes with splits/cracks in them which is allowing unmetered air into the engine. They seem fairly confident with this diagnostic but have also not ruled out the possibility that I might need a new MAF as well (apparantly this one was only replaced last year when I bought the car). The parts are cheap (they have everything in stock bar one hose which will be overnighted from Germay) - and will be here tomorrow. Total price so far (diagnostics, parts, labour and VAT) = £505.

 

[mauno]

merc dealer or indie?

 

[pangster]

merc dealer or indie?

Merc dealer

 

[mauno]

oh dear ......

 

[pangster]

oh dear ......

yep!..

Still - lesson learnt I guess... I think I'll get it sorted and move it on and get something more reliable and less costly to fix when things do go wrong (which won't be another MB!!) more likely be another BMW or Audi - both of which are companies that stand by their cars/engines and their customers! (for example they replaced the coil packs on my A3 for FREE under warranty despite my A3 being 10 years old and even provided me with a FREE courtesy car!). MB seem to be at the complete opposite end of the spectrum where they try and wriggle out of paying for anything or admitting any kind of fault or standing by their products!

Searching and skimming through the various MB forums doesn't make for pleasant reading. It definitely appears to be a case of WHEN rather than IF a costly repair happens and don't get me wrong - I appreciate cars need to be maintained and looked after and there are wear and tear items. But I've owned other prestigious brands in the past and all they've wanted is regular servicing and maintenance. The sad thing is that reading some of the other threads – a lot of the common costly issues seem to regularly occur (stretched timing chain, leaking cam sensors, coked heads, balance shaft issues etc) – which are fairly expensive fixes and are obviously down to very poor design on MB part – but they don’t want to know.

The past month will have cost me more in repairs than my last two BMW's and my current Audi combined!! - if I wanted the running costs of a Ferrari then I would have bought one - at least I would have had the pleasure of owning and driving something a bit special.

And before any says it's my fault for buying a dog etc - my car is an 03 C-Class (W203), 2 owners from new, full service history - it only had 44k on the clock when I bought it and only has 48k on the clock now!! Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

 

[pangster]

another update - dealer just called.. they've now replaced the boost hoses and cleared the faults. The car is now "a little better" but not right - so they ran more diagnostics and have now said the car needs a new fuel pump and fuel filter (running total so far: £1,097.59)....

 

[mauno]

when you have it back, what would you say for a free independent thorough checkup? I see your point but I have to add that all prestige brand costs more to run then a vauxhall.imagine just a broken cvt gearbox on the audi.new unit only, no parts for sale. also having just 2 owners previously does not tell what they have done to it.i would not bury the star emblem even knowing how much work I have done on my C200k.this car never failed me on the road.bought at 100000 now at181000. my a class 80000 now at 170000. I rather suspicious with ridiculously low mileage on 7-10 yr old bangers .hopefully you will get out of this winning it