W204 wheel alignment woes at Kw**fit
- Thread starter hebdenwill
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Petrol Pete
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
What Jobsworth said post #7 in picture form. They call it a crash bolt in the USA , I suppose once a pranged car is kicked straight and re sprayed the slotted bolt gives the repairer some leeway when setting the alignment.
The bolts are widely available and easy to change. A slotted bolt will easily take care of the 0.57' you need .
Shown on a w211 here, but it’s exactly that on the lower arms. Nice find
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I would also make sure that the arm that has been fitted is a Lemforder or genuine. Some of the copies are not made correctly and therefore have the incorrect geometry.
Petrol Pete
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Iv done them (twice) on my C55 , my car has non slotted bolts , I just put them back in the same place both times , no issues. I do have slotted bolts in stock , bought 'just in case' .
Why replaced twice you ask ? Noticed worn ones near MOT time , could not source Lemforder in time so banged Febi on . They lasted OK (ish) but when replacing struts and springs I noticed one was worn.
Got Lemforder on now. Buy cheap ...buy twice
hebdenwill
Member
Thanks for the contributions all, pretty sure the part fitted was a Lemforder, the Merc specialist I take it to always use genuine parts but they suggested a third party one for that arm as they've used it to good effect before - IIRC it comes fitted with the bush / bearing or something.
The car is still pulling to the left, even worse than before if I'm honest. Drury Lane agreed it was set wrong, then assured me it was right on resetting, but it was just as bad. I changed the all seasons to the back, no difference. Will try them again but not holding out much hope as he very confidently assured me it was 'normal' for it to pull as much as it does. It may well be normal, but it didn't do it before and was much nicer to drive!
Final thing I will try is asking somewhere to reset the alignment 'wrong' as it was originally, even if it wears the outer tyre edge a bit I'll take that over a pulling car. The only thing I can spot on the original alignment sheet (before adjutsment) was that the toe on the pass. side was different, I believe it was more in the negative. Will try and find and post it later, along with a video of just how much it pulls on a straight road with average camber.
I actually doubt it's much to do with caster or camber, as the values are little different to what they were when it was in its original state.
The car is still pulling to the left, even worse than before if I'm honest. Drury Lane agreed it was set wrong, then assured me it was right on resetting, but it was just as bad. I changed the all seasons to the back, no difference. Will try them again but not holding out much hope as he very confidently assured me it was 'normal' for it to pull as much as it does. It may well be normal, but it didn't do it before and was much nicer to drive!
Final thing I will try is asking somewhere to reset the alignment 'wrong' as it was originally, even if it wears the outer tyre edge a bit I'll take that over a pulling car. The only thing I can spot on the original alignment sheet (before adjutsment) was that the toe on the pass. side was different, I believe it was more in the negative. Will try and find and post it later, along with a video of just how much it pulls on a straight road with average camber.
I actually doubt it's much to do with caster or camber, as the values are little different to what they were when it was in its original state.
hebdenwill
Member
However, having just looked this up, it appears from what people say online that toe does not and can not cause pull - whoops
Who worked on your car at Dury Lane ? I had lower control arms changed by a non MB indi and had the steering wheel off center, pulling left Etc. Paul worked on my car and it drove spot on. He has a good reputation for setting up rally/race cars. The late Tony Bones from Wheels in Motion put me in touch with him, Tony was a real chassis geometry set up guru.
hebdenwill
Member
I won't name names as the issue hasn't been resolved yet and I haven't got back in touch with them, I certainly don't mean to be dragging anyone's name through the mud and it wouldn't be fair not to give them another chance. The person working on it was a professional who clearly knew his stuff and assured me the amount of pull was normal and didn't seem to want to progress the matter on that occasion. Once again, my motto throughout this issue "it might be normal but it wasn't doing it before..."
He did mention a "kit" costing several £hundred but as far as I can see the fluted bolt set for adjusting camber is only about £15 per bolt. I will try one last thing, swapping front tyres left to right, then when that inevitably doesn't work (as the pulling issue didn't start with the new tyres, only with the first alignment...) I'll give him another ring and see how we can progress the issue. Failing that I might have to look at selling the car as it's seriously impacted how much of an enjoyable drive it is.
He did mention a "kit" costing several £hundred but as far as I can see the fluted bolt set for adjusting camber is only about £15 per bolt. I will try one last thing, swapping front tyres left to right, then when that inevitably doesn't work (as the pulling issue didn't start with the new tyres, only with the first alignment...) I'll give him another ring and see how we can progress the issue. Failing that I might have to look at selling the car as it's seriously impacted how much of an enjoyable drive it is.
philnewmerc
MB Enthusiast
Quick point: try swapping wheels left to right just to make sure its not that. I had a W203 and it turned out that one tyres must have had an internal fault (perhaps a radial belt snapped) and the peculiar rolling resistance on that side made it pull... new tyres fixed it.
As far as I am aware if you just use the standard/factory data, the left pull will persist. Changing the camber angle by fitting camber correction bolts and using what is effectively out of spec settings should cure it. I have camber correction bolts at the front and Eibach camber kit at the rear. This allows both camber and rear toe adjustments to be made. The car is well set up and displays no adverse tyre wear with excellent handling. The thing to remember is that any adjustment of one setting will impact on others, chassis tuning is and can be a very technical business.
Five decades have passed scince I studied chassis technology as part of my HND but I think the basic principles and physics still apply. The only things that could change the laws of physics are usually found in a womans handbag.
Five decades have passed scince I studied chassis technology as part of my HND but I think the basic principles and physics still apply. The only things that could change the laws of physics are usually found in a womans handbag.
hebdenwill
Member
Cheers Phil, I'm hoping that will cure it but 99% sure it won't - as the wheels with these tyres were on the rear before, with all seasons on the front, and the pull was the same. I'll do it all the same to rule it out though, I'm all for the scientific approach
hebdenwill
Member
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linked is a very poorly filmed video showing how much it pulls without steering input.
linked is a very poorly filmed video showing how much it pulls without steering input.
philnewmerc
MB Enthusiast
Also, try the same experiment but on a truly flat road or carpark (or the centre of the road when its empty)... it might be just sensitive to road camber, but if it still pulls then there is a problem
ALFAitalia
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... and then on the wrong side on an empty road with good visibility and no junctions (obviously). As said before...its natural to have the car running slightly down the camber.... thats called gravity and difficult to overcome!.....but it should be slight and not noticeable with hands on the wheel....if you can feel it pulling or it still drifts to the left when on the other side of a cambered road, then indeed there is an issue. My 212 follows the camber slightly but you would not notice unless you took your hands off the wheel....My wife's A Class and my old 159 also did it... but slightly less.... but they are front (wrong!) wheel drive and much more sensitive to toe setting when it comes to how much they follow camber in my experience.
Nobody yet mentioned the Wheels inmotion thread which had something definitive to say about pulling to the left.
Definative explination.... Pull left | Wheels, Tyres, Brakes & Suspension
Definative explination.... Pull left | Wheels, Tyres, Brakes & Suspension
OneForTheRoad
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I've owned 6 mercs and the only one to via left and it was ever so slight was a 2004 w211 . The roads it happened on are slightly tilted towards the drains for obvious reasons. I put alot of blame down to aftermarket suspension arms and track rod ends.
hebdenwill
Member
oh yeah don't get me wrong, I've read all the way through that - the fella from WIM states repeatedly that excessive left pull with camber can be sorted. It must be fixable, as (as I've kept repeating) my car did not used to do it until I had KwikFit do the alignment. I don't have the slotted bolts either, so while I'm willing to splash out on them to fix the issue, I don't feel that it should be necessary!
OneForTheRoad
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You do know your not meant to mix all season tyres with summers . ?
hebdenwill
Member
several people have been kind enough to tell me that, but that's not what we're talking about here is it? Never mind the fact that after getting them fitted it didn't pull, that started after alignment! and never mind the fact various garages and mechanics have told me it's not a big deal....
