What an ****.

[Sorry Pete]

.....and look to where you want to be.
(Focus on what you are trying to avoid and you will hit it).

Yes, that's how it goes. And it works.

Agreed - riding a motorbike, or more specifically being taught how to ride a motorbike well often results in a better car driver...

Not only do people fall into bad habits, more importantly their ability to respond to an emergency situation is conditioned downwards by lack of exposure - so the first time someone encounters an emergency it's often their last.

I taught my friend to drive last summer. She picked me up last month and pulled out at the end of my road. I said "I normally look both ways before I cross the street..."

 

[brucemillar]

I believe in Indy racing the theory is that you should aim at the spinning car. The thinking being that it will move before you do and any avoiding action you try to take will cause another crash. In F1 there is a similar principle, when turning in, drivers will often aim at the barrier in the assumption that the car will move through under-steer. Thus explaining why often see several drivers having the same accident.

Here it is.

 

[Bellow]

The race car method BM works but only because the 'spinning car' still has velocity and is therefore going to be in a different place when you get there. It will also be moving 90 degrees to your direction of travel (or at least moving in the same direction, away from you, and giving more time to react).
On the road is complicated by the fact that the vehicle you want to avoid is possibly travelling toward you.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

While I can't argue with the science I firmly believe that road users should concentrate on how to drive on the roads, there are already too many drivers who think that a little race theory makes them better drivers than they are.

 

[Bellow]

It isn't an A or B choice.

 

[markjay]

...I taught my friend to drive last summer. She picked me up last month and pulled out at the end of my road. I said "I normally look both ways before I cross the street..."

I tell my children that there are three reasons why they should always look at both direction when crossing/joining a one-way street (as pedestrians or as drivers):

a. Drunk driver, confused driver, a deliberate offender, a joy rider in stolen car... there are various reason why a car might be coming the wrong way down a one-way street.

b. Emergency serveries vehicle - do not rely on always hearing the siren, there may not be one, or it may get drowned by other noise.

c. Cyclists - they habitually ride down one-way streets opposite traffic (and I think it was even made legal recently?). This includes various other types of motorised and non-motorised traffic such as skateboards, hoverboards, mobility scooters, motorized wheelchairs, etc.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

It isn't an A or B choice.

I tell my children that there are three reasons why they should always look at both direction when crossing/joining a one-way street (as pedestrians or as drivers):

a. Drunk driver, confused driver, a deliberate offender, a joy rider in stolen car... there are various reason why a car might be coming the wrong way down a one-way street.

b. Emergency serveries vehicle - do not rely on always hearing the siren, there may not be one, or it may get drowned by other noise.

c. Cyclists - they habitually ride down one-way streets opposite traffic (and I think it was even made legal recently?). This includes various other types of motorised and non-motorised traffic such as skateboards, hoverboards, mobility scooters, motorized wheelchairs, etc.

Bellow, it looks to be A, B, and C.

 

[st13phil]

While I can't argue with the science I firmly believe that road users should concentrate on how to drive on the roads, there are already too many drivers who think that a little race theory makes them better drivers than they are.

Have you ever ridden a motorcycle on public roads? If so you'll be aware of the concept of target fixation and that fact that you will go where you're looking. That's nothing to do with race theory, it's a feature of all driving that exists whether you're on a public road or a race circuit, or on two wheels or four. The difference is that it's more obvious on two wheels and a key part of riding a motorcycle smoothly and safely is to appreciate it and use it to your benefit, so it becomes a natural part of your driving.

Also, if another vehicle unexpectedly starts to cross your path leaving you insufficient time to stop, you're generally better off aiming to drive behind it rather than attempting to swerve around the front of it. Again, nothing to do with race theory and everything to do with attempting to position yourself where the other vehicle won't be by the time you arrive.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Have you ever ridden a motorcycle on public roads? If so you'll be aware of the concept of target fixation and that fact that you will go where you're looking. That's nothing to do with race theory, it's a feature of all driving that exists whether you're on a public road or a race circuit, or on two wheels or four. The difference is that it's more obvious on two wheels and a key part of riding a motorcycle smoothly and safely is to appreciate it and use it to your benefit, so it becomes a natural part of your driving.

Also, if another vehicle unexpectedly starts to cross your path leaving you insufficient time to stop, you're generally better off aiming to drive behind it rather than attempting to swerve around the front of it. Again, nothing to do with race theory and everything to do with attempting to position yourself where the other vehicle won't be by the time you arrive.

As stated I have no argument with the science but am concerned about the false sense of security that a little knowledge gives some drivers.

I have ridden motorcycles on the roads and the exposed nature of this form of transport has left me with very little in the way off arrogance in my style of driving.

I have been a pedestrian more recently than ever and having observed motorists from a different angle I am aware that some of us are just way too cocky for our own good.

I enjoy driving fast as much as anyone but have conceded that it is just inappropriate on our roads, our system is not set up to accommodate.

I couldn't live with myself if my driving was the cause of the death of another road user or passenger, particularly if I was wilfully speeding/racing for fun.

 

[lisa110rry]

I have ridden motorcycles on the roads and the exposed nature of this form of transport has left me with very little in the way of arrogance in my style of driving.

Me too! Getting my motorcycle licence made me much more cautious driving a car.

 

[MarkII]

Abstracting the discussion slightly: I've often wondered whether, given our evolution from hunter-gatherers, all humans are chemically pre-programmed to seek out risks in the pursuit of a return - all we have done is supplant the type of risk/return, from hunting a wild creature for food, to driving a vehicle fast to get from A to B, or over-taking a vehicle simply to be in-front.

This isn't my field of expertise but to me the idea seems to answer some questions, regarding personality types and resulting driver behaviour.

If true then the 'need' for risk is balanced against risk perception and weighed in the balance by the driver against his/her own experiences, influenced by underlying personality type.

One of the 'problems' regarding this theory in relation to modern vehicles, is that the level of perceived risk has been reduced by improvements in passive & dynamic safety systems, requiring a greater 'input' to reach the base level of fear - this means there is an underlying tendency to drive faster or take risks to a greater extent. In a modern vehicle, risk/fear balance occurs at a higher level and often at the limit of the drivers skill-set.

For instance, travelling at 80mph in a Morris Minor would feel dangerous, whereas 80mph in a modern Mercedes would not.

Gordon Tullock, an economist, once joked that 'if the government wanted people to drive safely, they'd mandate a spike in the middle of each steering wheel' - which would tend to influence a driver's sense of self preservation

 

[brucemillar]

On a similar vein: I keep Huskies.

Huskies go into (what is known as) "prey mode". At this point in time they are not ignoring you. They just do not hear you. They are 100% focused on their prey. Nothing at that point distracts them from their goal.

Some humans, exhibit the same behaviour with so called "road rage". Once locked in? all reason goes out the window. We see the consequences on the news or at the roadside.

 

[markjay]

Abstracting the discussion slightly: I've often wondered whether, given our evolution from hunter-gatherers, all humans are chemically pre-programmed to seek out risks in the pursuit of a return ...

This has more to with skewed perception if probabilities. We are all essentially risk-averse (to varying degrees), but when the reward is high, the probability of the risk materialising is perceived as lower than it actually is.

The same principle works in both directions, and a manifestation of this is the Lottery - no one in his right mind would ever play the Lottery if they logically worked out the odds. But because of the high reward - especially when there's a rollover or the Euro Lottery - our subjective perception if the probabilities is distorted to make it seem (or rather 'feel') more favourable.

This is what made Marco Polo and Christopher Columbus embark on their journeys... though the 'reward' is not necessarily financial, as can be seen from the long list of British explorers.

 

[TheFoX]

I'm just thankful that the idiot was driving a Range Rover and not a Mercedes. After all, we get enough bad press as it is, without some retard trying to wipe out other motorists with the ultimate road ram.

I wonder how the Range Rover forum is faring at the moment?

Mind you, we all come in for criticism from time to time, like the lady who blocked the tunnel entrance because 'She had right of way'.

Asserting our 'right of way' is not about one person being bigger and stronger than the other, but about whether their vehicle is bigger and stronger than the other. It's amazing how the most timid of people become demons of the highway.

When I was younger, I was something of a road warrior, exerting my presence on the road, yet many years later I am now more subdued, forgiving those that trespass against me. It doesn't mean I don't care, but just that life is too short to overly worry about the transgressions of others. Just get on with life and complete your journey.

Anyone here remember the Brittas Empire? Gordon Brittas exerted his right of way by stepping on to a pedestrian crossing, right in front of a treacle lorry, and ended up in intensive care, telling Helen that 'I had right of way'.

If we all exerted our 'right of way', just imagine how many times we would walk in to each other. People manage to negotiate each other on a busy street, so why not in our cars? Maybe the psychologists are right when they say that driving a car brings out the primeval in us.

 

[MarkII]

On a similar vein: I keep Huskies.

Huskies go into (what is known as) "prey mode". At this point in time they are not ignoring you. They just do not hear you. They are 100% focused on their prey. Nothing at that point distracts them from their goal.

Back when I was a child my parents had two Border Collies - one from a working farm and the other not - neither had received any training as such but their instinct to herd was inbuilt.

At the end of the day we're all 'Animals' - as humans we're just 'supposed' to be more reasoned in our actions. Unfortunately our ability to reason, isn't always as good as we perceive it to be

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I'm just thankful that the idiot was driving a Range Rover and not a Mercedes. After all, we get enough bad press as it is, without some retard trying to wipe out other motorists with the ultimate road ram.

I wonder how the Range Rover forum is faring at the moment?

Mind you, we all come in for criticism from time to time, like the lady who blocked the tunnel entrance because 'She had right of way'.

Asserting our 'right of way' is not about one person being bigger and stronger than the other, but about whether their vehicle is bigger and stronger than the other. It's amazing how the most timid of people become demons of the highway.

When I was younger, I was something of a road warrior, exerting my presence on the road, yet many years later I am now more subdued, forgiving those that trespass against me. It doesn't mean I don't care, but just that life is too short to overly worry about the transgressions of others. Just get on with life and complete your journey.

Anyone here remember the Brittas Empire? Gordon Brittas exerted his right of way by stepping on to a pedestrian crossing, right in front of a treacle lorry, and ended up in intensive care, telling Helen that 'I had right of way'.

If we all exerted our 'right of way', just imagine how many times we would walk in to each other. People manage to negotiate each other on a busy street, so why not in our cars? Maybe the psychologists are right when they say that driving a car brings out the primeval in us.

I remember Gordon Brittas, he was one of my favourite TV characters. Didn't Victor Meldrew die in similar circumstances?

The road rage comments are spot-on there are so many very angry people around these days, thankfully they are easy to identify. We should pity them really.

 

[190]

The last two years I've dabbled with a motorbike, and I think that alone has improved my driving more than any course could. The forward planning, observation and plain old tingly senses that something's not right are reinforced when you aren't cocooned from the elements.

This is so true. What you are describing here are the advanced driving techniques of observation and awareness that all drivers should be adopting. It's a long time since I learned to drive so perhaps they are included in today's driving test. If not they should be. Motorcyclists or those that survive in the long term slowly acquire these skills but I think it's better if they are taught. And I guess they probably are in current compulsory motorcycle training. I've been riding motorcycles for 45 years and sometimes I wonder how I got through the first 25 years unscathed before I started taking these skills seriously. The last 10 years in particular I've been constantly self analysing every ride to see where I could have reduced the risks and I'm still learning.

Perhaps that's the key to good driving; a willingness to constantly improve.

 

[MarkII]

This has more to with skewed perception if probabilities. We are all essentially risk-averse (to varying degrees), but when the reward is high, the probability of the risk materialising is perceived as lower than it actually is.

I see what you're saying Mark but my underlying point is less about cognitive reasoning, given that our body chemistry influences our lives and actions in so many ways (mentally, hormonally etc) perhaps in our relatively boring modern lives we all (to a greater or lesser extent) seek out ways to satisfy our needs - balancing these against conscious decisions and rationality.

For some it will be achieving a goal, winning the order, beating the sales target, gaming to the next level, for others it might be driving quickly - even dangerously to get a kick.

How many times have you seen someone for no good reason scoot past just before roadworks in order to be at the front of the que, often on a road with countless sets of traffic lights, where they gain 5 secs from that manoeuvre only to be passed by the same traffic in another lane moments later.

In practice it achieves nothing but is it all being driven by their need to release a chemical cocktail of 'feel good' hormones - I won, whoopee, sense of satisfaction!?

 

[Deleted member 65149]

If we all exerted our 'right of way', just imagine how many times we would walk in to each other. People manage to negotiate each other on a busy street, so why not in our cars? Maybe the psychologists are right when they say that driving a car brings out the primeval in us.

Is it perhaps when we're walking we know that bumping into someone else may hurt a bit, so we avoid each other? But behind the wheel a small bump will, at worst, just hurt our pockets. However I've seen more and more of a tendency in pedestrians to take less care, particularly those paying more attention to their phones than anything else. The older I get (too rapidly approaching 70!) the more primeval I get on foot and the more understanding in my car. When I'm walking and someone is coming the other way on their phone and totally oblivious to me I refuse to move out of the way for them. I just stop and wait to see when, if ever, they spot my 6', 14 stone frame blocking their path. They always have done so far, but usually only inches from me and with complete shock on their faces. Similarly I refuse to move a significant amount off my route when a group of people are stretched across the path coming towards me. With school kids it's like Moses parting the Red Sea! But it's most definitely not about "right of way" for me. It's more to do with my disappointment that others aren't taking as much care and being aware of other people as I think they should.

I have the same feelings behind the wheel but know the dangers of asserting my ideas on the road. Many years ago when doing my first abseil my instructor shouted after me as I plunged down the cliff face "Don't you know the meaning of fear?" Well I certainly do, it's a fear of what other people may do on the road - be they drivers, riders or pedestrians. I think it's a healthy fear.

 

[TheFoX]

I remember Gordon Brittas, he was one of my favourite TV characters. Didn't Victor Meldrew die in similar circumstances?

The road rage comments are spot-on there are so many very angry people around these days, thankfully they are easy to identify. We should pity them really.

Victor died at the hands of an over tired driver, played by Hannah Gordon. She had no malicious intent, only stupidity and desperation.

As for Gordon Brittas, one of the best scenes ever was when Helen went in to labour, and even though she had requested that Laura took her to maternity, Gordon took over and decided to take her instead.

As it happens, Gordon's car is in a minor collision with an elderly gent and, regardless of the fact that Helen is in obvious pain, decides that exchanging details with the other driver is more important than getting his wife to maternity.

Needless to say, Helen ends up giving birth in the High Street instead of at the maternity hospital.

Don't you just love him.