What value do you place on FMBSH?

[SSBB]

I changed the gearbox and engine oil in my C220 cdi (W203)today. Heres my problem(s)

The car has only done 51,000 miles.
Its got a full MBSH, and the books fully stamped.

I have a gearbox fault. Car thumps down the gears when cold, and thumps into the next gear 'up' when going round a roundabout. Its better, but not perfect when hot.

An independent MB specialist checked it two weeks ago and added half a litre of oil. No change.

Today I went to MB main dealer who sold me four litres of oil. After a disagreement over the right quantity he sells me another three litres. (my information came from an 'autodata' cd from a mate who runs an engine rebuilding business) .

I drained my gearbox and including removing the sump I extracted exactly THREE litres of oil which looked like it should have come from the engine.
The underside of the car is bone dry...no leaks.
I poured exactly 6.2 litres back in. Drove the car....perfect seamless changes. On the roundabout, no problems.

Hopefully theres no permanent damage to the gearbox.

Q. Where did the other 3.2 litres of oil go
Q. Why is there a MB stamp in the book saying the oil has been changed when it clearly never has
Q Why did an independant check it and find it only half a litre out
Q Why does my main dealer tink I only need four litres
and finaly, Theres only one person you can trust to look after your car properly...You

The photo is a small mount of oil I saved to show you.

 

[jaymanek]

you have put way too much oil in.. 6.5 litres assumes you drain the torque convertor which doesnt have a drain plug on your car..

the MB service guys probably did as you did.. took out just 3 litres and so mixed it with oil in the convertor.

assume you didnt buy or get a dipstick?

 

[SSBB]

I looked at the computer in the main dealers and it states a 'Dry' fill of 7.4 litres and a 'Drain and refill of 6.2, I assume the remaining 1.2 is whats left in the torque convertor.

The auto data discs state a drain and refill of 6.2 and this seem to correspond with my old C250 which I also changed and put 6.5 litres in.

Four litres seems a very small amount for an auto box.

 

[jaymanek]

im not certain but the convertor will hold more than 1.2 litres im sure.

did my W126 today and i got around 2 litres from the box and about 4.5 from the convertor

 

[SSBB]

The guy at the dealers said its about 2 litres in the convertor.

I suppose the only way to be sure is to get a dipstick. Mercedes should be ashamed of themselves not providing such a simple tool for owners to check what at the end of the day is a very important piece of preventative maintenance.....or maybe they have an ulterior motive?

 

[bdabdabeav]

because te gearbox your referring to a 722.6 is meant to be a sealed box for life so they claim. buy a dipstick but at 80 degrees itl only show you what is in the sump. so the fluid will be dirty from what is mixe in the torque converter.the torque converter holds much more than two litres. you could undo one of the cooler lines,left hnd start, and run the engine until clean fluid cmes out use a drain tray ad thn refill t completely flush the system

 

[lynall]

Changed mine and the wifes a couple of times now and each time got approx 2.5/7 litres out of the sump.

Dipstick cheap of e bay usa circa £20.

Ps always impressed when is see a bonnet up and can see genuine filters or parts, but just recently seen a quite a few new trucks with fleetgaurd filters fitted from the factory!



Lynall

 

[nick mercedes]

Q. Where did the other 3.2 litres of oil go

Torque convertor, transmission cooler/lines.

 

[Roger Jones]

Reminds me of the last time I serviced my W124 Coupé at the local main dealer, eight years ago. Like the OP, I had alarmingly similar problems afterwards. I took it back and they found they had short-changed the box by two litres. As someone with experience and authority commented in another forum, it was inexcusable. £650 for the service, including incompetence. Boxes ticked in the service book -- worth nothing.

 

[grober]

First of all its best described as gearbox fluid not oil since its a completely different animal from the stuff you put in the engine. A small point you may think but auto-gearboxes are all about precision. They are precision assemblies and have to be treated as such. Its not rocket science but you need to know exactly what your are doing and take time and patience to get it right. Too much fluid is as likely to wreck your box as not enough. Too much the fluid may result in over pressure or fluid starvation and premature gearbox failure. Sometimes in MB dealerships its the inexperienced that are assigned routine jobs such as oil/fluid changes and have to work to a pretty tight schedule to "move the metal" The mechanic working on your car may have been working on Toyota's a couple of weeks back and may be expected to "pick it up" as he goes along. He may be unwilling to admit to his colleagues he is struggling because of fear of losing his new job. Changing autotransmission fluid correctly does take time since the new fluid has to be at the correct temperature to be measured correctly. I think many dealerships rely on the final road test and inspection to pick up on any errors but this is not so rigorous an approach as getting it correct "off the bat".IMHO I reckon MB should provide all cars with service dipsticks- engine oil+ transmission fluid as part of the toolkit with the car. The indolent among us are then free to rely on electronic monitoring of levels or just not bother between services, whereas the careful owner is empowered to monitor his/her cars oil/fluid themselves. My bet is it would end up saving them money.

 

[SSBB]

I just made a dipstick from a pattern supplied by a MB owner on another forum (with curtain wire).
If his measurements are correct, I have indeed overfilled my gearbox by just about double! Ive driven it about 30 miles without problem but Ive ordered a dipstick from e.bay america now so I hope it arrives soon.
The measuring marks provided are 5.5cm and 6.5cm from the end of the wire. Does anyone know if this is right. If so I need to get some oil out of the box pretty sharpish.

 

[renault12ts]

Remember there are 2 fill marks cold and hot. If you filled to the hot mark when cold then you will have overfilled. And if you took 3 out then put 3 back in!!! You have not drained the TC. Here's a sticky from the USA site:


http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210-e-class/1334827-photo-diy-722-6x-transmission-fluid.html

 

[johnsco]

First of all its best described as gearbox fluid not oil since its a completely different animal from the stuff you put in the engine. A small point you may think but auto-gearboxes are all about precision. They are precision assemblies and have to be treated as such. Its not rocket science but you need to know exactly what your are doing and take time and patience to get it right. Too much fluid is as likely to wreck your box as not enough. Too much the fluid may result in over pressure or fluid starvation and premature gearbox failure. Sometimes in MB dealerships its the inexperienced that are assigned routine jobs such as oil/fluid changes and have to work to a pretty tight schedule to "move the metal" The mechanic working on your car may have been working on Toyota's a couple of weeks back and may be expected to "pick it up" as he goes along. He may be unwilling to admit to his colleagues he is struggling because of fear of losing his new job. Changing autotransmission fluid correctly does take time since the new fluid has to be at the correct temperature to be measured correctly. I think many dealerships rely on the final road test and inspection to pick up on any errors but this is not so rigorous an approach as getting it correct "off the bat".IMHO I reckon MB should provide all cars with service dipsticks- engine oil+ transmission fluid as part of the toolkit with the car. The indolent among us are then free to rely on electronic monitoring of levels or just not bother between services, whereas the careful owner is empowered to monitor his/her cars oil/fluid themselves. My bet is it would end up saving them money.

I agree with every word that Graeme says here.
Auto transmissions are complex precision units.
MB's decision NOT to provide dip-sticks is unforgiveable.
One of the first things I did when I bought our two E300TDs was to purchase the correct dip stick.
You cannot afford to get this wrong.
The price will be a very-expensive failure.

Johnsco

 

[A-AvantGarde]

because te gearbox your referring to a 722.6 is meant to be a sealed box for life so they claim.

Thought most of the newer boxes were sealed too...

 

[G-Force]

I got the ATF change don my E320 a few weeks ago as i was getting a slight grummble at low revs...car now drives great with slightly smoother changes...again this is supposed to be a "sealed box" The stuff that came out was def due a change.
Regardsing the origional thread question im not too sure..i always service my cars every 10,000 miles no matter what, but the last 2 cars i traded in i was asked if the cars had full service history and on both occasions the salesman didn't ever look at the service book..in fact when i changed my Jag the guy didn't even inspect the car!!! Seriously......
Thats a lot of ammo for you all to shoot back at me with!!!

Value of service book depends on attention of next trade in salesman....

 

[Druk]

I just made a dipstick from a pattern supplied by a MB owner on another forum (with curtain wire).
If his measurements are correct, I have indeed overfilled my gearbox by just about double! Ive driven it about 30 miles without problem but Ive ordered a dipstick from e.bay america now so I hope it arrives soon.
The measuring marks provided are 5.5cm and 6.5cm from the end of the wire. Does anyone know if this is right. If so I need to get some oil out of the box pretty sharpish.

You might want to read this.

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/engine/69188-atf-topup-2.html

 

[andy_k]

I just made a dipstick from a pattern supplied by a MB owner on another forum (with curtain wire).
If his measurements are correct, I have indeed overfilled my gearbox by just about double! Ive driven it about 30 miles without problem but Ive ordered a dipstick from e.bay america now so I hope it arrives soon.
The measuring marks provided are 5.5cm and 6.5cm from the end of the wire. Does anyone know if this is right. If so I need to get some oil out of the box pretty sharpish.

I would suggest that you check the levels with a proper dipstick from the dealer not with anything home made unless you are 100% certain

I'd also ask the 'expert' if he has tested the possible reaction between the plastic coated curtain rod and the ATF, whether it is safe to use curtain rod at 80 C or if the coating may start to break down at those temperatures etc etc etc

or, you could just trust any old poster on an internet forum whether they have any genuine workshop experience or not - remember, not everything you read on the net is correct

 

[lynall]

Pic of stick, see the 2 little lugs just above the max hot temperature? big discussion a while ago on the other froum and fella on there says they rest on a lip inside the valve body and the stick hangs in the fluid and does not touch the bottom of the sump as we all think.

What i do is drain old oil into a measuring jug then put exact same amount back in then check with the stick.



Lynall

 

[Adam230K]

FMBSH only means that the engine oil has been changed at the right-ish times. I dont think anymore of it than that.

 

[Buggerlugs]

Alas, I know of many dealerships for various marques where the servicing policy is simply to give it a quick wipe down so it looks good, check the engine oil then park the car up till the customer comes to collect and pay, it's terrible really how the trust of many loyal customers is exploited like this. On the other hand it also sucks how many people are impressed by a mini valet, even when the car comes out running worse than when it went in.

I can't stress enough that anyone looking for a provider of services for their cherished motor should look for recommendations from other owners, word of mouth, internet forums etc. It really is the only way.

IMO the stamp of a reputable indy in your service book is just as good if not better than the main dealer stamp to the more knowledgable prospective purchaser.