What's a "semi-automatic" gearbox?

[Stratman]

I'm looking for a diesel estate auto, and I've seen a couple advertised with a "semi-automatic" 'box.

What on earth is one of those?

Sorry, I should have said I'm looking for a C-class '01-'03

 

[PJH]

Semi-autos are 'clutchless manual' transmissions. ie a gear-stick but only 2 pedals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission

Never heard if it on Mercs, unless they mean what is now called paddle-shift, ie Tiptronic.

 

[Stratman]

I've had a look at pictures (on the CarGiant website) and they definitely have a gear lever of some sort.

 

[IanA2]

Semi-autos are 'clutchless manual' transmissions. ie a gear-stick but only 2 pedals. Never heard if it on Mercs.....

The first A Classes had them......

 

[glojo]

I'm looking for a diesel estate auto, and I've seen a couple advertised with a "semi-automatic" 'box.

What on earth is one of those?

Sorry, I should have said I'm looking for a C-class '01-'03

It would be handy if you could publish the link, but my money is on 'journalistic licence'

If you are talking about a modern day Mercedes-Benz car, then I'm not aware of a clutchless manual. The A-class though tends to experiment with differing types of transmission.

The commercial side of Mercedes-Benz certainly have clutchless manual transmissions.

Regards,
John

 

[spitzkop]

On Mercedes Benz, the clutchless-manual is called Sequentronic. It is a 6 speed manual gearbox mated to an automated clutch and computer control system. The gear lever has Neutral, Auto, +/- and Reverse. No clutch, all done by computer. It has creep mode like an auto and basically is an auto to an end-driver, except: Changes are not as smooth (think of left foot and hand changing a manual observing as a passenger), more economical, higher speed (because its a manual over an auto argument).

Not for control freaks, boy racers who burn rubber at the lights, or impatient dudes, but otherwise a nice system. It is found on all C's, Estate, Saloon or Coupe and also Sprinters (Sprintshift) and other Mercs.

 

[glojo]

Not for control freaks, boy racers who burn rubber at the lights, or impatient dudes, but otherwise a nice system. It is found on all C's, Estate, Saloon or Coupe and also Sprinters (Sprintshift) and other Mercs.

Hi spitzkop,
We always have to be careful when answering questions about vehicle specifications as different countries have different specifications.

I have the Sprint Shift option on our Sprinter, but I have NEVER heard of it being available on UK cars. I will tactfully say UK as opposed to European.

Some folks think tiptronic is sprintshift, but that is a definite NO.

You and I and perhaps stratman are talking about a clutchless manual gearbox as in Sprint Shift. I have had both the 210 and 211 E-class and the gearbox your describing has NEVER been a UK option. Is it possible to post any literature on this information please?

Nice speaking to you,
Regards,
John

 

[Mr E]

In the UK I think it was/is an option on C-Class...

 

[grober]

Sequentronic didn't get good reports when it first came out, may have improved?? see http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=1980
the dual clutch system DSG from VAG seems a lot better.

 

[stats007]

The first A Classes had them......

More popular in France I believe. My friend has one and it's bloody awful.

 

[Satch]

Here you go:

http://www.europeantransmissions.com/the new genaration of automatic_transmissions.htm

(lot of useful info on that site)

Also:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/Con...oring/2001/02/20/emfmerc20.xml&site=14&page=0

Buyers have a choice of transmissions: an excellent five-speed automatic or a new six-speed manual with a mediocre shift quality.

This may also be specified with "Sequentronic" gear selection, which means two pedals, the clutch being operated by electronics. To change gear, you simply flick the lever back for upward changes and forward for down changes.

Mercedes says that this "promises even more fun at the wheel". This remains unfulfilled. Smooth changes, difficult in the standard version, are impossible with Sequentronic. In addition, the system sometimes stubbornly refuses to change down, for no evident reason, and the throttle linkage supplies all or nothing at narrow throttle openings, making smooth progress nearly impossible. Parking is tricky, as the system hesitates before responding in forward or reverse gears, and Sequentronic can allow the car to roll on an incline before it engages the clutch. There is nothing wrong with the concept, but other companies have made such systems work far better. Back to the drawing board.

So in other words for that vintage of Sequentronic (there are newer ones that are better I understand) no barge pole is long enough

 

[blassberg]

I used to have a 3-speed semi on a Citroen CX24 Familiale. Great car. Character by the bucketload.

 

[Stratman]

Thanks for all the replies. I tried to publish a link but the way the Cargiant website is set up means it is not possible to link directly to a specific car.

Reading the reports tells me to avoid it like the plague. It seems to combine the worst aspects of manuals and autos.

Thanks again.

 

[spitzkop]

Hi spitzkop,
We always have to be careful when answering questions about vehicle specifications as different countries have different specifications.

I have the Sprint Shift option on our Sprinter, but I have NEVER heard of it being available on UK cars. I will tactfully say UK as opposed to European.

Some folks think tiptronic is sprintshift, but that is a definite NO.

You and I and perhaps stratman are talking about a clutchless manual gearbox as in Sprint Shift. I have had both the 210 and 211 E-class and the gearbox your describing has NEVER been a UK option. Is it possible to post any literature on this information please?

Nice speaking to you,
Regards,
John

I think others have answered your question John, but its one of those ítems on a car which is peculiar to each individual driver. I like the Sequentronic, having few complaints, but agree (and hence my warning) that it wont be everybody's cup of tea.

 

[jaymanek]

I can also add that the suquential is not the easiest to sell on.. Its very personal, almost like a manual e class...

i hate it as it takes a long time to get used to and if you are regularly driving other cars then its very difficult to get used to again.
the auto mode on them is very clunky and the manual mode is weird as its just a + and - whereas in an a class the gears are still in their proper positions, you just have no clutch...

i find myself constantly looking at the dash to find which gear im in...

 

[Dieselman]

I used to have a 3-speed semi on a Citroen CX24 Familiale. Great car. Character by the bucketload.

Arguably a better system as the driver still controls the clutch via the gearlever.

 

[Glenn Smith]

Thanks for all the replies. I tried to publish a link but the way the Cargiant website is set up means it is not possible to link directly to a specific car.

Reading the reports tells me to avoid it like the plague. It seems to combine the worst aspects of manuals and autos.

Thanks again.

I tend to agree, i often drive Unimogs with a similar system, these have a conventional manual (albeit with pre-selector) they have a fully auto mode (difficult to manuver in tight spaces) clutchless manual mode (also difficult in tight spaces) they also have a clutch pedal that can be folded out and you then have a manual mode with clutch. problems with the system involve failure to select gear(false neutrals) in manual mode and failure to disingage clutch during auto mode results in having to stand on brakes to stall. i don't think i'd buy an automated manual.

 

[fuzzer]

I'm looking for a diesel estate auto, and I've seen a couple advertised with a "semi-automatic" 'box.

What on earth is one of those?

a bad idea ...

 

[glojo]

i hate it as it takes a long time to get used to and if you are regularly driving other cars then its very difficult to get used to again.
the auto mode on them is very clunky and the manual mode is weird as its just a + and - whereas in an a class the gears are still in their proper positions, you just have no clutch....

Having looked at the latest specs for these vehicles I assumed it was not an option. Woops, my mistake. Sprint Shift is evidently exactly the same as what is being discussed and to a degree I can endorse what Jay has said.

Why on earth go for this option when Mercedes-Benz manufacture a top class automatic? The clutch-less manual does take getting used to. It adapts itself to the drivers style and boy can that be a pain. Courtesy drivers are perhaps not as laid back as my wife

My personal believe is that the gear changes are extremely smooth when used right, but the box is at the end of the day a manual. Engine braking! This can only be used when driving the vehicle using the '+' or '-' configuration.

In a saloon car I feel it is a specialist option with a very small market. I would never recommend it in place of a modern tiptronic gearbox.

Regards,
John

 

[spitzkop]

One of the primary reasons for going to the semi-automatic is TAX and Fuel. The taxation rate (road fund license) is in or near bottom bracket (for a 220cdi, cant remember exactly which bracket) and the fuel economy is way better. Having driven numerous c220cdi with auto and manual boxes fuel is a notable issue in the auto. With the semi-automatic you get the best of the taxation and fuel economy worlds plus an automated car, whereas the tiptronic auto box, you get higher taxation, higher fuel usage but an easier life.

As most agree, its a specialist option. For retired people conscious of costs but wanting a Merc, the semi-automatic box is worth considering.