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Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

BP, SHELL, ESSO, and all the others supply there own outlets, why not the power companies and add that cost to the consumers with EVs.
 
With all these subsidies flying around its going to be cheaper to plug my house into a lamp post.
 
markjay said:
I have an EV and live in a flat in London. As I already said, in our street we have a charger in each lamppost, making charging very straightforward. When the car needs charging, I just park it overnight near one of the lampposts and leave it to charge.

Ubitricity installed "charge points in lampposts and bollards in the City of Oxford and in the London Boroughs of Hackney, Hammersmith and Fulham, Haringey, Hounslow, Islington, Lambeth, Richmond, Southwark, Tower Hamlets, Waltham Forest, Wandsworth, and the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea."

Hopefully, these will be rolled out to more cities.
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I think I know the area you live in Mark as I was born close by. My point was that the concentration of population that live in flats, you’re area is a perfect example, would if everyone bought an EV, make street charging a personal vehicle a humdinger of a problem.
 
On one hand, subsidising the uptake of EVs at local government level, isn't unreasonable given that zero-exhaust-emissions vehicles improve air quality in the Borough. And, this is currently done anyway via various schemes that provide discounts or exemptions to EVs (my other point, that Councils shouldn't be encouraging private car ownership in general, is a separate discussion).

However, my concern is specifically regarding the commercial viability of public chargers. You'd hope that not only can a deal be agreed where the energy providers incur the installation costs, but perhaps also pay some sort of rent to Council, and still turn a profit.

At current I am paying 24p per kW ar the 5.5kW public chargers in our street. That's around double the cheapest home tariff. If the chargers' installation was subsidised by the Council, then you have to wonder how much do the energy providers need to sell the electricity for in order to run the chargers as independent commercial enterprise, including ROI?

The only light at the end if this tunnel is that hopefully the subsidies are just a temporary measure and will stop once enough people switch to EVs to make the chargers profitable for the energy providers.
 
Tonye said:
So its all down to the Money then. Not saving the world. LOL.
I knew there was a flaw ln the plan. 😇
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I think it really is down to money as none of these schemes work without being taxpayer subsidised. Whether it's railways or Boris bikes, the utopian dream of shared public transport always ends up as a loss making concern. It would be nice if it didn't but the fact is that personal ownership is usually cheaper. Even at the most simple level Boris bikes are not especially cheap to use every day compared with owning your own and the scheme is still loss making to the tune of £6 million so far which works out at £520 per bike. As far as I know there never has been a bike/scooter scheme in the UK that didn't make a loss and usually a loss bigger than the cost of personal ownership. They are admirable schemes but always at an excessive cost. If shared ownership is the future then it will for certain be a subsidised future.
 
Bobby Dazzler said:
Over the next decade the public infrastructure will expand significantly in both coverage and capacity and allow charging for those without the ability to recharge at home or at work.

Some landlords, employers and other providers of parking will install charging points to set themselves apart from their competitors. Others won’t bother. There should be no need for incentives.

We should think differently to what we’ve become used to: that is that ICE refuel in filling stations, and EVs refuel at home (because the public infrastructure isn’t yet fully mature).

The same goes for using our owned car for every journey, and that car must do everything we could ever want it to. Shared cars, short/medium term hire, and public transport will become more popular.

We’re already well on the way. Many private cars are long term hire - or at least financed and handed back or traded in at the end of the term - the likes of Uber and Boris Bikes are a step towards shared use.

No need to panic. When the time comes that it makes sense to switch to an EV, then switch. If that time never comes then never make the switch. In the meantime enjoy the choice you have already made.

So if you regularly tow a caravan from Glasgow to Morocco in the depths of winter when range is most limited, and you can only stop for 5 minutes every 800 miles then stick to your current car and mode of thinking.
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There was a post on the caravan and motorhome club where a guy towed his caravan with a polestar, yea it towed it but he had to make 3 long stops to get where he was going and when he did stop to recharge as he put it luckily the car park wasnt busy as he had somewhere to unhitch and park his caravan so as he could park at a charger and charge his car! Another thing he did and this sounds terrible was that he tucked in behind an arctic to reduce wind drag to increase range which to be honest doesnt really sound a very pleasant drive!
 
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davymead said:
I think I know the area you live in Mark as I was born close by. My point was that the concentration of population that live in flats, you’re area is a perfect example, would if everyone bought an EV, make street charging a personal vehicle a humdinger of a problem.
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Agreed. Ultimately, the lampposts chargers will only work if the majority of people do not do lengthy journeys daily and therefore will not need to plug the car in every night.

A modern EV will have 300 miles WLTP range. With a charging patern of 20% to 80%, and 25% reduction for the winter months, that's 135 miles between charges (if keeping to optimal charging regime to maximise battery life).

Pre-COVID, the average annual car mileage in the UK was 7,400. This means that an EV would need charging once a week on average. And, in respect of people living in flats in cities, it's likely that their average annual mileage is actually lower than the UK average, because of shorter journeys as well as the availability of other means of transport.

Whether the average annual car mileage in the UK will ever get back to what it was pre COVID is anyone's guess. But given that the majority of mileage driven in the UK Pre-COVID was business journeys, I suspect not. In practical terms it means that the average city dweller will typically need to charge their EV every other week.

So lamppost charging will work well in most urban areas, though perhpas not in places where there are tower blocks with no off-street parking and the ratio of residents per lampost is high.
 
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Tonye said:
So you will be happy that Bob the builder parkes his Van outside Your House every other night 😇
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I don't live in a house, the building I live in is a block of flats... lots of vans parked in the street during daytime, and one of our neighbours even has a mobile home parked in the street. When you live in the city you don't get to choose who parks outside your building. I charge my EV from whatever lampost happens to have parking available next to it.
 
Tonye said:
Why should jo blogs pay for others transport
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Sadly he/we already do. The railways are heavily subsidised. All those high earners who used to travel into the city of London daily were/are subsidised by the tax payer!

The cost of recharging an EV is only going to rise significantly. There is an energy shortage and prices are set to double next year. So expect the cost of charging to go up significantly. Fortunately the ICE car uses a different fuel and although affected by oil prices, isnt subject to power cuts or electric price hikes!
 
Alfie said:
Sadly he/we already do. The railways are heavily subsidised. All those high earners who used to travel into the city of London daily were/are subsidised by the tax payer!

The cost of recharging an EV is only going to rise significantly. There is an energy shortage and prices are set to double next year. So expect the cost of charging to go up significantly. Fortunately the ICE car uses a different fuel and although affected by oil prices, isnt subject to power cuts or electric price hikes!
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Yea but the railways (any public transport) takes cars off the roads - can you imagine what it would be like if everyone that used public transport suddenly decided to drive.

Have you see what it costs to commute by public transport? It is very expensive (and very unpleasant).
 
190 said:
I think it really is down to money as none of these schemes work without being taxpayer subsidised. Whether it's railways or Boris bikes, the utopian dream of shared public transport always ends up as a loss making concern. It would be nice if it didn't but the fact is that personal ownership is usually cheaper. Even at the most simple level Boris bikes are not especially cheap to use every day compared with owning your own and the scheme is still loss making to the tune of £6 million so far which works out at £520 per bike. As far as I know there never has been a bike/scooter scheme in the UK that didn't make a loss and usually a loss bigger than the cost of personal ownership. They are admirable schemes but always at an excessive cost. If shared ownership is the future then it will for certain be a subsidised future.
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Governments have always subsidised major initiatives which are in the public interest, either to initiate change, or to rescue struggling businesses.

The only difference is that is was previously less visible as nationalised industries whereas now it’s in the form of subsidies and grants to privately owned industries.

That means “tax payer” has always met the cost. Hands up who would prefer to have not established electricity, gas and water industries, or saved the banking and car industries?
 
As I’ve said before, companies have been happy to take our money for internet use and mobile phones, but less inclined to provide the network to use them. Mobile phones are the worse culprits, if we haven’t got 100% by now, what chance do chargers have?
 
Alfie said:
The railways are heavily subsidised. All those high earners who used to travel into the city of London daily were/are subsidised by the tax payer!
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When I visited the National Rail museum in York I was surprised to learn that throughout the history of railways they have almost always run at a loss. The current subsidy is 13.7p per passenger mile in England, 33p for Scotland and 38.7p for Wales.

In England the subsidy part alone of rail travel exceeds the fuel cost of traveling the same distance in my car.
In Scotland and Wales the subsidy is similar to the whole cost of running a car including fixed costs.

So I keep reading that public/shared ownership transport is the future but I don't get it from an economic standpoint as public transport is always more expensive than private even after you have invested in the fixed cost of owning a car. Cities may be the exception but large numbers of people don't live in a city and very rarely enter one.

Once the pollution aspect of cars has been licked the conclusion I draw is that we should be building more road capacity rather than investing subsidies in public transport.

It's hard to argue with the model of public transport but the reality is they are always run inefficiently and I have no expectation that that will change.
 
markjay said:
When you live in the city you don't get to choose who parks outside
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190 said:
Cities may be the exception but large numbers of people don't live in a city and very rarely enter one.
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There's 11 lamp posts on my street, 65 households, on average 3 cars each. One post is right outside my path, not a chance of parking there, we have 2 cars, one each side of said post. Plug in to your house and foot your own fitting bill.
 
MikeInWimbledon said:
For sure, which is why an EV is a no-brainer for the company car user. You trouser an extra £4k a year by choosing a Tesla 3 over a C220d.
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Excellent! I can afford another family holiday abroad each year!
 
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