Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

[Tonye]

Like the cat-5 and heat pumps, don't do a thing for at least 10 years.

 

[Deleted member 159894]

Absolutely it’s chicken and egg. Throughout the whole EV rollout, I’ve repeatedly read that the biggest barrier is the cost of the charging infrastructure required.

Not sure we know for definite that wind farms will, in all cases at least, be viable.
Only time will tell.

I have no faith whatsoever in those making the decisions. You only have to look at the heat pump cluster f*ck. it appears to be universally agreed that it will be a disaster, that is apart from those actually making the decisions..

An example of how badly handled the emissions thing is. In April 2023 it will be law that commercial property have to reach a certain energy rating. Otherwise it cannot be rented.

Our landlord had a survey done that rated the property way down, “G” I believe. Anyway, a fail requiring a lot of work. The cost of which will be passed onto us. So we had our own survey done and the building passed with a much lower rating. Now the surveyors are arguing with each other

You’d be surprised at how easy it can be to get up to an E, I know of a buy to let that b came compliant due to changing all bulbs to LED and putting a. Jacket on the hot water cylinder.

 

[Dickster]

You’d be surprised at how easy it can be to get up to an E, I know of a buy to let that b came compliant due to changing all bulbs to LED and putting a. Jacket on the hot water cylinder.

I can believe. I think the landlord was trying it on.

A friend of mine works in shopping fitting, and the surveyors turn up and asks what rating needed. Then he instructs them on what to do to pass. Once he’s gone they can do what they like, as the certificate is good for ten years

 

[Tonye]

putting a. Jacket on the hot water cylinder.

And the kids

 

[markjay]

Controversial post alert....

When I say that the only long-term solution for both road congestion and the environment is that we have less cars, and drive them less, I am told that this will impact of people's freedom of movement, job mobility, leisure activities, etc.

But if having private cars and driving them to our heart's content is so important for the British public... why is it wrong for the government to subsidise such an important national goal?

Daimler-Benz have already announced announced that they are going 100% electric 'for those markets where it's appropriate' (or words to that effect), and this means all Western countries. Other car manufacturers are doing the same.

The UK will not stick with ICE cars when Europe (and parts of the US) are going electric, regardless of what some may think of EV tech.

So, if people need mobility, and if the future of personal transport is (good or bad) electric, what's wrong with the government subsidising the infrastructure to support it?

EDIT: my own personal view, is that zero-exhaust-emissions vehicles improve air quality in urban areas, thus preventing serious illness and premature deaths, and subsidising it is akin to spending money on the NHS. As for the environment... I am not so sure.

 

[Deleted member 159894]

I can believe. I think the landlord was trying it on.

A friend of mine works in shopping fitting, and the surveyors turn up and asks what rating needed. Then he instructs them on what to do to pass. Once he’s gone they can do what they like, as the certificate is good for ten years

Is it worth buying your own premises?

A pal of mine did this using his pension fund. Free from the tyranny of landlords forever and an asset to boot.
I believe he pays rent to himself, well, his pension.

 

[Tonye]

E cars, E lawnmowers, E heating, Where's all the Es coming from.
Best chuck another bucket on.

 

[Deleted member 159894]

E cars, E lawnmowers, E heating, Where's all the Es coming from.
Best chuck another bucket on.

The 90s

 

[Tonye]

A friend of mine lives on the canal system on a barge, some new barges are now using e propulsion from solar power, a great system if your life is at canal speed, not so good for motorways.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

This depends on what the alternative is.

The concept of a company cars on a business lease has been with us for many years now, it's nothing new.

At current, a business lease on an EV instead of on an ICE car is a no-brainer, thanks to government incentives.

And, a business lease is for a set period, so it's not very likely that people will get their cars changed more frequently at result of these incentives, instead they'll simply get an EV when the lease is next up for renewal.

Will they get nicer (I.e. more expensive) cars than they did before, now that the BIK on EVs is low? Possibly, though with the low BIK the net cost to them will still be the same.

So for these group of users, an EV makes perfect financial sense.

But for anyone not getting their EV on a business lease, the financial benefits are less obvious.

And, as you rightly pointed-out, they might change their cars sooner than they normally would, in order to get an EV, which of course means more expense for them.

However, there are many reasons why private owners buy EVs.

Firstly, perceived savings is a very common factor. Private owners bought Diesel cars for years "because they are more frugal", Londoners bought Prious because "there's no Congestion Charge", etc - many private owners look only at very basic data such as fuel economy or insurance group, and are rarely bothered with TCO that takes into account depreciation, maintenance and servicing costs, etc. For these owners, the allure of 4 miles per kW at 12p per kW will be a significant factor, ignoring all others.

Then, many will buy an EV for a range of non-financial reasons. Because it's 'the right thing to do' (the government says so), or because they feel (rightly or wrongly) that they are 'doing their bit for the environment', or because they only do short local journeys which fit well with an EV, or because they are technophiles, or because they want a car that does two-point-something zero-to-sixty, or because they want a fun car, or because they want the neighbours to be envious... the list is long. To sum it up... there's zero financial benefit in buying a C63... and yet I always wanted one (too late for me though....).

Agreed on ALL that.

My point was only about those who have switched their finances to ride the perceived EV tax break.

Completely accept that for someone already in a £40k company car the EV is a no-brainer

I'm pointing at the techies and bean counters who are taking on a £40k Tesla (or £80k Tesla X) to do 4k a year on the school run instead of the classic 6 year old hatchback because it's a "tax break"

As you say, if you want a C63, Bentley, or Tesla X, you might as well buy one. "You can't take it with you." And Rishi will do more useful things with your money.

 

[grober]

If its a choice between uk taxation subsidising windturbines in the North Sea or propping up PUTIN'S regime by paying artificially inflated natural gas prices I know where my money's going! There are geopolitical fossil fuel energy dependency aspects to this involving a much bigger picture.

 

[DrNick]

Controversial post alert....

When I say that the only long-term solution for both road congestion and the environment is that we have less cars, and drive them less, I am told that this will impact of people's freedom of movement, job mobility, leisure activities, etc.

I agree. See post #211 for one vision of the future!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

What is the issue with subsidies?

National infrastructure and very large scale change is expensive, and Government have always met the cost. Subsidies help to share that cost with industry and individuals, which is better than the alternative, ie meeting the full cost or not having that National infrastructure or change at all.

 

[BravoSmith]

This depends on what the alternative is.

The concept of a company cars on a business lease has been with us for many years now, it's nothing new.

At current, a business lease on an EV instead of on an ICE car is a no-brainer, thanks to government incentives.

And, a business lease is for a set period, so it's not very likely that people will get their cars changed more frequently at result of these incentives, instead they'll simply get an EV when the lease is next up for renewal.

Will they get nicer (I.e. more expensive) cars than they did before, now that the BIK on EVs is low? Possibly, though with the low BIK the net cost to them will still be the same.

So for these group of users, an EV makes perfect financial sense.

But for anyone not getting their EV on a business lease, the financial benefits are less obvious.

And, as you rightly pointed-out, they might change their cars sooner than they normally would, in order to get an EV, which of course means more expense for them.

However, there are many reasons why private owners buy EVs.

Firstly, perceived savings is a very common factor. Private owners bought Diesel cars for years "because they are more frugal", Londoners bought Prious because "there's no Congestion Charge", etc - many private owners look only at very basic data such as fuel economy or insurance group, and are rarely bothered with TCO that takes into account depreciation, maintenance and servicing costs, etc. For these owners, the allure of 4 miles per kW at 12p per kW will be a significant factor, ignoring all others.

Then, many will buy an EV for a range of non-financial reasons. Because it's 'the right thing to do' (the government says so), or because they feel (rightly or wrongly) that they are 'doing their bit for the environment', or because they only do short local journeys which fit well with an EV, or because they are technophiles, or because they want a car that does two-point-something zero-to-sixty, or because they want a fun car, or because they want the neighbours to be envious... the list is long. To sum it up... there's zero financial benefit in buying a C63... and yet I always wanted one (too late for me though....).

I believe that the biggest problem about EVs is their relatively small range. When they hit 1000-km range that will be a game changer, my opinion.

 

[clk320x]

I believe that the biggest problem about EVs is their relatively small range. When they hit 1000-km range that will be a game changer, my opinion.

How many people do 1000km without stopping at all though?

 

[BravoSmith]

How many people do 1000km without stopping at all though?

That is more about psychological comfort that your car will not let you down when you least expect it.

 

[markjay]

That is more about psychological comfort that your car will not let you down when you least expect it.

Long journeys in an EV do require more planning than ICE cars.

But for the majority of people it will make little difference.

The typical range of a modern EV is currently 400-450Km WLTP. City driving in good weather will give you 10% above that. Motorway driving in the cold and rain will give you 20% less range.

There will be those for whom an EV that can't do 1000Km on a single charge will be useless, and they'll only switch once the range increases to cover that. But for the majority of drivers the current range is absolutely fine.

 

[Dryce]

Long journeys in an EV do require more planning than ICE cars.

But for the majority of people it will make little difference.

I've seen the same sort of argument made for public transport vs private vehicles by those trying to persuade people to shift to public transport.

So why even have a personal vehicle at all?

 

[Deleted member 159894]

I've seen the same sort of argument made for public transport vs private vehicles by those trying to persuade people to shift to public transport.

So why even have a personal vehicle at all?

Because other people are grim.

 

[clk320x]

I've seen the same sort of argument made for public transport vs private vehicles by those trying to persuade people to shift to public transport.

So why even have a personal vehicle at all?

I hate using public transport - even travelling into C.London I drive my car, even though it used to cost me £27.50 in CCZ and ULEZ… with parking on top… now in my Tesla it costs me £0 (apart from the parking) and will do until December 2025 when the CCZ exemption ends.

So an EV made perfect sense for me. I’m glad I am not contributing to decreased air quality in cities - BTW before you say about the electricity coming from fossil fuels Tesla have promised to power all supercharger stations with renewable energy… and my home electricity provider is also the same.