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Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

markjay said:
Is this a serious question?

Taxis, Uber cars, minicabs, buses, and trains, are all owned by private companies or by self-employed individuals, operating the vehicles as a business that serves the public. This is how public transport works.

And this is also how you achieve a relatively-small fleet of vehicles ferrying a large number of people daily.

There are currently shy of 70m people living in the UK, and just over 40m vehicles, of all types. Sounds insane, I know....
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You have just reeled off a list of expensive forms of travel. Taxis, buses and trains. All cost an arm and a leg compared with a privately owned car.

Tax ICE cars off the road and the masses use public transport. At current prices that means many will not be able to afford to travel.

A deeply divisive policy.
 
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ChipChop said:
Are you proposing some form of state intervention? A fleet of UK plc on demand hire cars on every street corner rented by the minute. Or would you leave the leasing aspect in the hands of the private sector? If you favour the private sector model why is it acceptable for private companies to own vehicles but not private individuals?

Newcastle upon Tyne also has electric scooter hire available in the city centre. A council run scheme using a Chinese companies bright orange scooters. Neuron scooters. £1 to unlock and then 18 pence per minute. You have to be over 18 to rent one. A run for profit scheme by the Chinese company in collaboration with Newcastle city council.

China is a long way from Newcastle so what an odd deal for a council to broker. Maybe all expenses paid trips to the far East were the clincher for the council wallers. Fact finding missions i think they call them. Wonder if they offset the carbon using tax payers money?
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It doesn't matter from a purist point of view. All you should care about is how efficient it is. State intervention probably isn't the way forward - look what happened to the railways. We live in a capitalist society so market forces dictate things, for better or for worse. You can keep private car ownership if you want, as a form of competition, but if the on demand robo-Uber is better, then most people will move away from ownership.
Nothing stopping you setting up your own system in competition if you want!
 
ChipChop said:
You have just reeled off a list of expensive forms of travel. Taxis, buses and trains. All cost an arm and a leg compared with a privately owned car.

Tax ICE cars off the road and the masses use public transport. At current prices that means many will not be able to afford to travel.

A deeply divisive policy.
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Why divisive? For once, we agree on something.

I have pointed-out on several (OK, more than 'several'...) occasions that public transport must be made efficient and affordable if we are to significantly reduce the level of private car ownership.

I have also said (repeatedly...) that instead of spending money on incentivising the purchase of new EV, we should be spending it on public transport.

Give us the best, most efficient, and cheap public transport on the planet. Then put up taxes on private vehicles for all those living in dense urban areas (disabled and others excepted).

Ooops, I am preaching this on a motoring forum... no wonder the audience is left cold. I guess I should log on to trainlovers.co.uk or busaficionados.co.uk and try there.
 
ChipChop said:
You have just reeled off a list of expensive forms of travel. Taxis, buses and trains. All cost an arm and a leg compared with a privately owned car.
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As London seems to be the main city continually mentioned throughout this thread then there is a spending cap on their public transport which will be cheaper than using a car once you pay the daily congestion charge / any ULEZ charges if applicable / fuel / parking , depending on a few factors (for us) the cap was around £10 per day.

Other areas dont seem to be as fortunate as the counties capital as regards to their financial assistance to get people onto public transport.

K
 
ChipChop said:
You have just reeled off a list of expensive forms of travel. Taxis, buses and trains. All cost an arm and a leg compared with a privately owned car.
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An understandable position when viewed from the perspective of someone who owns a car - or cars - and sees public transport as an additional and unnecessary expense because you have the luxury of owning a car.

Owning and running a car is an expensive form travel when viewed from the perspective of those people who don’t own a car either due to cost, availability of secure parking, personal preference or other reason. Just a matter of perspective and it’s OK to have a different one.

The future of travel will just be more diverse, with more options available than today. Car ownership will continue for many many years, but more and more people will use other forms of travel alongside or to replace car ownership which will make more sense in the future than today.

Mobility is not ICE car ownership. ICE car ownership is a form of mobility. The future will be about Mobility, and not ICE car ownership, but ICE car ownership will continue to be a form of mobility.
 
ChipChop said:
Pricing the masses out of cars, taking away their personal mobility is not a social or technological advance in history it is a regressive step. Society going backwards.
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What evidence is there of pricing the masses out of cars, and taking away mobility?
 
Bobby Dazzler said:
The future of travel will just be more diverse, with more options available than today. Car ownership will continue for many many years, but more and more people will use other forms of travel alongside or to replace car ownership which will make more sense in the future than today.

Mobility is not ICE car ownership. ICE car ownership is a form of mobility. The future will be about Mobility, and not ICE car ownership, but ICE car ownership will continue to be a form of mobility.
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I dare say this new diverse option filled future of travel involves an additional middleman demanding a cut.

An earlier post differentiated between a traditional taxi service and an Uber service. Despite both being basically the same to the user. A licensed carriage service operating within a locality.

The difference is an Uber involves an extra middleman. This middleman does none of the actual work but expects to be paid. An added cost. Good for the middleman, minimal work (an app?) but bad for the customer and society (an inflationary pressure).

Private car owners in the wrong type of car may also experience this middleman character if you happen to have the need to travel to a city centre that has a ULEZ type emissions zone or go the wrong way round the M25 and go across the Dartford crossing by mistake. A local authority middleman.

Dissuade private car ownership and encourage a shared future of mobility. Introduce mass renting instead of mass ownership. The middlemen can enter the equation and take a cut when it is they that have ownership not you. Every journey will become a paying fare.

As for evidence of pricing the masses out of private car ownership and their personal mobility there is inflation. Rampant inflation.
 
ChipChop said:
As for evidence of pricing the masses out of private car ownership and their personal mobility there is inflation. Rampant inflation.
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So the evidence that people are being priced out of cars is inflation? Really? So the reason for current levels of inflation is to price people out of privately owned cars. Not convinced.
 
Is this not yet another North South thing, cities in the North are small ,compared to the smoke, its just not going to work up here until the transport infrastructure is at least on par. We simply have no choice. We don't have anything like the income of the South so its actually cheaper to jump in the car.
 
Tonye said:
EV prices are mental.
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The price of all new cars are expensive. EVa will depreciate just like all new cars depreciate. The price of new EVs will reduce as volumes increase.
Tonye said:
Is this not yet another North South thing, cities in the North are small ,compared to the smoke, its just not going to work up here until the transport infrastructure is at least on par. We simply have no choice. We don't have anything like the income of the South so its actually cheaper to jump in the car.
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Which choice which has been taken away?
 
ChipChop said:
...The difference is an Uber involves an extra middleman. This middleman does none of the actual work but expects to be paid. An added cost. Good for the middleman, minimal work (an app?) but bad for the customer and society (an inflationary pressure)...
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With respect, I don't think you fully understand how Uber operate.

They are certainly not a "middleman" who "does none of the actual work but expects to be paid". In fact, they do all the work, apart from driving the car.

They built the company, created the brand, they do the marketing and the advertising (without which, you wouldn't even know they exist), they are developing and supporting the app, they are vetting the drivers, they are managing the payments (and refunds, where due), and they employ the people who do all that, etc.

Before Uber, we had minicabs, with the minicab company managing the office, receiving the calls, and dispatching the drivers. This wasn't done by volunteers, either.

What you see as the customer at the point of receiving a service, is a person who stands at the top of a pyramid made up of others who work hard to provide the support required to ensure that you and that other person actually meet and that you receive the service that you are paying for.
 
Tonye said:
... its just not going to work up here until the transport infrastructure is at least on par...
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Do I detect a sense of relief in your tone..........?
 
Tonye said:
Carry on for as long as possible with our ICE cars as its just not affordable to do anything else
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Why are you so confident that there won't be affordable (new or second-hand) EVs.. ever?
 
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Tonye said:
Carry on for as long as possible with our ICE cars as its just not affordable to do anything else
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When was that choice taken away?
 
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