Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

[Rich764089]

Here you go...:

https://cfpub.epa.gov/ncer_abstracts/index.cfm/fuseaction/display.files/fileID/14522

What Is the Environmental Impact of Petroleum and Natural Gas? - dummies

What you know as oil is actually called petroleum or crude oil and may exist as a combination of liquid, gas, and sticky, tar-like substances. Oil and natural g

www.dummies.com

Almost 20 years old, but probably mostly relevant. Have you sourced a similar doc to see the impact of EVs? Including extrapolations if we meet government/Greta targets?

 

[markjay]

Almost 20 years old, but probably mostly relevant. Have your sourced a similar doc to see the impact of EVs? Including extrapolations if we meet government/Greta targets?

No, but I am posting here incessantly that no car if good for the environment.... we should have less private cars and more public transport. The idea that we can save the planet simply by changing the propulsion method of our cars is nonsensical.

 

[Rich764089]

No, but I am posting here incessantly that no car if good for the environment.... we should have less private cars and more public transport. The idea that we can save the planet simply by changing the propulsion method of our cars is nonsensical.

As I've seen. And I agree on that. There's a pragmatic balance to strike between impact on the environment and going back to the dark ages. Highly subjective, hence such debate.
The fact that we're aiming to cripple ourselves to virtue signal with almost no impact on the environment is non sensicle, I agree. E.g. EVs or closing coal mines in UK only to import more polluting coal from khazakstan etcetera....

 

[DrNick]

Saw a video on YouTube the other day. The cheapest EV on Autotrader was bought and tested. It was £4500 and a Nissan Leaf from 2012 I think. Basically as new after 70k miles. The range was reduced a bit from new as the battery had worn but they tested it to flat and it did 65 miles. It’s only 80 when new.
I know it doesn’t sound like a lot but it’s fine for most use cases and doesn’t take long relatively to charge up as the battery isn't that big!
So the cost of EV ownership doesn’t need to be huge.
The video should be easy to find. Published by auto trader.

 

[Rich764089]

Saw a video on YouTube the other day. The cheapest EV on Autotrader was bought and tested. It was £4500 and a Nissan Leaf from 2012 I think. Basically as new after 70k miles. The range was reduced a bit from new as the battery had worn but they tested it to flat and it did 65 miles. It’s only 80 when new.
I know it doesn’t sound like a lot but it’s fine for most use cases and doesn’t take long relatively to charge up as the battery isn't that big!
So the cost of EV ownership doesn’t need to be huge.
The video should be easy to find. Published by auto trader.

That wouldn't get me to work. But great for some, I agree.

 

[Rich764089]

Saw a video on YouTube the other day. The cheapest EV on Autotrader was bought and tested. It was £4500 and a Nissan Leaf from 2012 I think. Basically as new after 70k miles. The range was reduced a bit from new as the battery had worn but they tested it to flat and it did 65 miles. It’s only 80 when new.
I know it doesn’t sound like a lot but it’s fine for most use cases and doesn’t take long relatively to charge up as the battery isn't that big!
So the cost of EV ownership doesn’t need to be huge.
The video should be easy to find. Published by auto trader.

Is it like buying a 20 year old AMG though...relatively cheap purchase but potentially absurdly big repair bills? There are some horror stories about the bills on used EVs when there are battery issues. Worse than ICE cars or not?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Can you not see them, they are everywhere, everywhere i tell you.

Still not getting it.

I do see people almost everywhere, so is it everyone else who is out to get you?

 

[Tonye]

Still not getting it.

Try watching the parliament channel

 

[DrNick]

Is it like buying a 20 year old AMG though...relatively cheap purchase but potentially absurdly big repair bills? There are some horror stories about the bills on used EVs when there are battery issues. Worse than ICE cars or not?

Batteries are the biggest worry, obviously. Its the equivalent of having to buy a new engine, which is equally scary. We obviously hear horror stories on here about both, but we are all aware that catastrophic engine failures are relatively rare, if expensive. We are not so confident from our own experiences that battery failure is similarly rare.
Would you expect a second hand car to have a specific warranty for complete engine failure? No. You would expect the odd component to fail and hopefully be reasonable to repair.
The same will apply to batteries. They are fixable if a cell goes down and the skills needed to do this will develop as the need arises.

Engines will wear out though. So will batteries. The question is, how long should a battery be expected to last? Hyundai guarantee them for 10 years and 100k in the states (8 years in europe). A quick trawl of the internet suggests that 150,000 miles is a low life expectation. Newer batteries are expected to last the life of the car >200,000 miles. Tesla batteries appear to be especially good at keeping capacity. I'll leave it to you to do your own searching if you want, but the evidence to back these figures up is out there!

I'm starting to think battery life and replacement costs should not be a major worry. Buyer beware and all that, same for a "normal" car and there will be the odd dog, but over time I don't think we are going to worry too much about it.

 

[Ted]

1,000,000 Km battery warranty on the Lexus UX e suggests that other manufacturers will soon follow.

 

[190]

Hyundai guarantee them for 10 years and 100k in the states (8 years in europe). A quick trawl of the internet suggests that 150,000 miles is a low life expectation. Newer batteries are expected to last the life of the car >200,000 miles. Tesla batteries appear to be especially good at keeping capacity. I'll leave it to you to do your own searching if you want, but the evidence to back these figures up is out there!

I'm starting to think battery life and replacement costs should not be a major worry.

Unless you buy a Mercedes in which case the battery warranty can be as low as 6 years or 62,000 miles for a hybrid or 8 - 10 years and 62,000 - 156,000 miles for an EV depending on model. Only the S class model gets the 10 years or 156,000 miles.

 

[Tonye]

1,000,000 Km battery warranty on the Lexus UX e suggests that other manufacturers will soon follow.

That sounds good for high mileage users but how many years will it last, and at what cost ?

 

[Ted]

That sounds good for high mileage users but how many years will it last, and at what cost ?

It’s 10 years, but you would expect a good safety margin to be built in on that to avoid claims approaching the ten year mark.
After I posted, I thought ‘that can’t be right’ but I double checked and it is correct.

Hybrid batteries have a 15 year warranty - subject to an annual check which is free if done when serviced.

 

[DrNick]

That sounds good for high mileage users but how many years will it last, and at what cost ?

The answer is that nobody really knows but expectations are that a lightly used and looked after battery (no deep discharges, maintained between 20-80% charge) should go in excess of 20 years and some are saying 30 years. A heavily used battery will lose capacity quicker in terms of time but should still do high mileage.
Batteries after this time can either be recycled or repurposed as residential storage or as storage facilities for public solar chargers, as capacity and weight are less of an issue. The EU battery directive requires batteries to be at least 50% recyclable. Maybe our rules can be made to be even stricter...

 

[DrNick]

Of course, letting a lithium Ion battery go completely flat ruins it. This is not zero as far as the charging system goes , but COMPLETELY flat, like if you drove the car until it was empty and then left it alone for ages (months, maybe years). Thats what happened to my EV bike battery. Ruined, and had to buy a new one. £150 so not cheap but it does get me 50 miles on a single charge and it plugs into a normal wall socket.
Electric bikes are great fun. Conversion kits available for most bikes. No range anxiety. If it goes flat, you can pedal. Limited to 12 mph on electric but it gets there really quickly and will do that up hill.

 

[Tonye]

Electric bikes are great fun.

We have 2 for when we are away on hols, i bring both battery packs home and top up charge every 2 months, works great for us.

 

[markjay]

The answer is that nobody really knows but expectations are that a lightly used and looked after battery (no deep discharges, maintained between 20-80% charge) should go in excess of 20 years and some are saying 30 years. A heavily used battery will lose capacity quicker in terms of time but should still do high mileage.
Batteries after this time can either be recycled or repurposed as residential storage or as storage facilities for public solar chargers, as capacity and weight are less of an issue. The EU battery directive requires batteries to be at least 50% recyclable. Maybe our rules can be made to be even stricter...

Also, a reminder that almost all EVs sold in the UK at current, come with an 8-years warranty for the battery. Of course, cars should last for more than 8 years, but then it's unlikely that all EV batteries will go belly-up at exactly 8-years-and-one-day.

The difference between a heavily-used battery and a worn high-miler engine, is that the high-miler engine will also be a heavy smoker and you’d probably not want to drive it, while a heavily-used battery simply means that you have a smaller 'fuel tank' - i.e. it will affect the range and obviously the value, but it won't render the car useless.

 

[Gollom]

Unless you buy a Mercedes in which case the battery warranty can be as low as 6 years or 62,000 miles for a hybrid or 8 - 10 years and 62,000 - 156,000 miles for an EV depending on model. Only the S class model gets the 10 years or 156,000 miles.

Are battery warranties fully transferrable? If not it makes buying used EV a bit more of a gamble surely?

Also, when an ad says "battery leased" what does that mean?

 

[190]

Also, when an ad says "battery leased" what does that mean?

It means you don't own the battery, you lease it from the manufacturer. Renault used this model with the Zoe and the battery costs were from £49/month up to over £100/ month depending on annual miles. The car was £5000 cheaper that if the battery was bought outright.

 

[Gollom]

It means you don't own the battery, you lease it from the manufacturer. Renault used this model with the Zoe and the battery costs were from £49/month up to over £100/ month depending on annual miles. The car was £5000 cheaper that if the battery was bought outright.

Depending on mileage, sounds a no-brainer!