will the chinese economy impolde?

[Bellow]

So we have just signed up to build a reactor that no-one's got working yet. You couldn't make it up!
]

My understanding is that the reactor the UK will receive is 'a trial'. An untested prototype on our soil.

We were willing to trade with Gaddafi though this was short-lived (no pun intended).

Ended when DC ignored that Gaddafi wanted to 'cut a deal' when the Libyan uprising began and he (DC) put his own political ambition ahead of stability in the region.

We are happily trading with Saudi Arabia, have been for many years now.

Given the Saudis have taken to beheading and then crucifying children who protest against the ruling dictatorship perhaps our days of dealing with them are numbered?

IMF reporting that Saudi could be bankrupt within five years.

while Israel has been under UK arms embargo for a number of years now.

Whatever human rights violations may be committed in Israel (or Palestine) pale in significance when compared to those committed regularly in China, Saudi, and Iran. Our trade relations with Israel (or Palestine) are minuscule and inconsequential for both our and their economy. More importantly, we do not supply arms to this troubled region at all.

In this context, Israel simply does not come into the discussion.

.

Not entirely true as we never question the USA (also a country that executes its own) over its continued support and supply of arms to Israel despite the undoubted oppression and illegal treatment of Palestinians.

 

[edstrom76]

Interesting commentary on Britain joining the "Golden Era": http://www.economist.com/news/brita...itishgovernmentmakesabigbetonasiasrisingpower

China has big plans for the Yuan - on 20th October they sold its first sovereign bond in London, worth over $4 billion(!).

 

[Red C220]

Not entirely true as we never question the USA (also a country that executes its own) over its continued support and supply of arms to Israel despite the undoubted oppression and illegal treatment of Palestinians.

But an enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.

This is all a big political game that's been unchanged for centuries. The stakes change in detail but the game remains the same.

The real big change in the last ten to fifteen years is freedom and availability of information instantly via the WWW.

People find what they read unpalatable. But remember we generally get the "BBC Daily mail" version of events in this country. Sometimes pertinent parts of the big picture are entirely glossed over.

 

[HB]

All the countires I mentined so far routinly carry-out public executions and/or amputations, and in many cases those executed are convicted of ridiculous offences.

In addition, our trade relations with Saudi and China are on a massive scale, as those with Iran will soon be.

And finally we sell arms to Saudi Arabia, China, and now to Iran, while Israel has been under UK arms embargo for a number of years now.

Whatever human rights violations may be committed in Israel (or Palestine) pale in significance when compared to those committed regularly in China, Saudi, and Iran. Our trade relations with Israel (or Palestine) are minuscule and inconsequential for both our and their economy. More importantly, we do not supply arms to this troubled region at all.

In this context, Israel simply does not come into the discussion.

I don't question our moral values here - i.e. whether we should or should not trade with regimes who we believe do not meet our own moral standards, this is a separate discussion - but I simply ask why bring this up with China? Why now? We did not seem to have an issue with this so far.

It's amazing how quickly the Israel defence league kicks in.

 

[nick mercedes]

All the countires I mentined so far routinly carry-out public executions and/or amputations, and in many cases those executed are convicted of ridiculous offences.

Like living in Gaza and being subject to collective punishment?

Execution does not get much more public than the 2310 killed last year.

In addition, our trade relations with Saudi and China are on a massive scale, as those with Iran will soon be.

And finally we sell arms to Saudi Arabia, China, and now to Iran, while Israel has been under UK arms embargo for a number of years now.

Whatever human rights violations may be committed in Israel (or Palestine) pale in significance when compared to those committed regularly in China, Saudi, and Iran. Our trade relations with Israel (or Palestine) are minuscule and inconsequential for both our and their economy. More importantly, we do not supply arms to this troubled region at all.

In this context, Israel simply does not come into the discussion.

Well I for 1 wish that we put human rights before the chance for some well connected, more often than not offshore, spiv to make some money.

I don't question our moral values here - i.e. whether we should or should not trade with regimes who we believe do not meet our own moral standards, this is a separate discussion - but I simply ask why bring this up with China? Why now? We did not seem to have an issue with this so far.

China kills or imprisons anyone who is not happy with the one party system, therefore I don't see why we should give them the red carpet treatment.

Plus they've pretty well decimated what was left of our manufacturing/steel industry.

Plus it's looking pretty likely that they've made up all the economic statistics to hide the fact that they're Japan mk2.

 

[nick mercedes]

IMF reporting that Saudi could be bankrupt within five years.

No doubt due to their cunning plan to flood the world with cheap oil to bankrupt the American fracking industry.

Which has backfired and led to their own oil revenue dependent economy getting a bit wobbly.

Not entirely true as we never question the USA (also a country that executes its own) over its continued support and supply of arms to Israel despite the undoubted oppression and illegal treatment of Palestinians.

I think even the right wing Americans are getting a bit tired of supporting the unsupportable.

 

[markjay]

It's amazing how quickly the Israel defence league kicks in.

HB, sorry but nick was derailing his own thread....

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as interesting a subject as it may be, has absolutly nothing to do with the Chinese economy.

Bringing it up tends to generate the usual response from the usual suspects (admittedly, myself included) which leads nowhere and gets the thread closed.

So can we get back on track and move on please?

 

[BIRMA]

I been thinking for a while that we are on the brink of an almighty crash, not quite a black swan event but a severe readjustment.
A series of events lately could cause it China, VW, Greece.
I have for years made a nice profit buying and selling FTSE 100 shares but have for the last few years sold all of my major holdings thinking we were on the brink of a crash so I got that timing wrong to a certain degree although I bought RR Holdings at 600 and sold for 1270 or thereabouts.
Put it this way I have absolutely no borrowings in place at the moment and don't intend to for the future.
Just my opinion I'm far from an expert just a gut feeling.

 

[markjay]

Like living in Gaza and being subject to collective punishment?

Execution does not get much more public than the 2310 killed last year.

nick, I was referring to the three top 'offenders' according to the Amnesty International report. China is one of them and it is relevant to the topic of your thread. The US is in 4th place and perhpas should also be considered in this context. The way you are heading with this will see your thread go out of control and closed....

Well I for 1 wish that we put human rights before the chance for some well connected, more often than not offshore, spiv to make some money.

China kills or imprisons anyone who is not happy with the one party system, therefore I don't see why we should give them the red carpet treatment.

Plus they've pretty well decimated what was left of our manufacturing/steel industry.

Plus it's looking pretty likely that they've made up all the economic statistics to hide the fact that they're Japan mk2.

This is the big question, as far as I am concerned.

 

[nick mercedes]

I been thinking for a while that we are on the brink of an almighty crash, not quite a black swan event but a severe readjustment.
A series of events lately could cause it China, VW, Greece.
I have for years made a nice profit buying and selling FTSE 100 shares but have for the last few years sold all of my major holdings thinking we were on the brink of a crash so I got that timing wrong to a certain degree although I bought RR Holdings at 600 and sold for 1270 or thereabouts.
Put it this way I have absolutely no borrowings in place at the moment and don't intend to for the future.
Just my opinion I'm far from an expert just a gut feeling.

I suspect that most FTSE/Dow companies are massively overvalued, but the real correction will be residential property, which seems to been built up into a massive bubble.

 

[markjay]

...we never question the USA (also a country that executes its own) over its continued support and supply of arms to Israel despite the undoubted oppression and illegal treatment of Palestinians.

We trade heavily with Russia and now Iran, both of which sent troops to Syria to fight for Assad's regime.

And yet these issues only come up in relation to our trade agreements with China. Why?

We can be either a moral nation or a trading nation, but clearly not both at the same time...

 

[BIRMA]

I suspect that most FTSE/Dow companies are massively overvalued, but the real correction will be residential property, which seems to been built up into a massive bubble.

And 'classic' cars too, OK there are some that are blue chip investments but everything seems to have gone silly.
I'm old enough to have lived through 17% mortgage rates can you imagine the re-adjustment to the market if that was ever repeated? I doubt things could ever get that out of hand again but history does have a habit of repeating itself.
I pity those who held large quantities (well sort of) of Glencore shares but that was related to China but for one moment I thought this could be the snowball starting to roll.

 

[nick mercedes]

And 'classic' cars too, OK there are some that are blue chip investments but everything seems to have gone silly.
I'm old enough to have lived through 17% mortgage rates can you imagine the re-adjustment to the market if that was ever repeated? I doubt things could ever get that out of hand again but history does have a habit of repeating itself.

In the late 1980s classic cars went into orbit, and then recession hit in 1991.

I pity those who held large quantities (well sort of) of Glencore shares but that was related to China but for one moment I thought this could be the snowball starting to roll.

This is the problem, China was seem as endless on the up.

Hence scrapyards are filled to the brim with metal bought when scrap was worth £200 a tonne, rather than £25.

And then there's all the people who bought buy to let terrace houses in the midlands banking on an endless stream of Chinese and overseas students to fill them at top money.

 

[Bellow]

No doubt due to their cunning plan to flood the world with cheap oil to bankrupt the American fracking industry.

Which has backfired and led to their own oil revenue dependent economy getting a bit wobbly.

That, and their war in Yemen. House of Saud in disarray apparently. Two thirds want the king ousted. Reckoned to happen before the year is out.

I think even the right wing Americans are getting a bit tired of supporting the unsupportable.

H. Clinton as POTUS will ensure 'business as usual' - sadly.

 

[Bellow]

We trade heavily with Russia and now Iran, both of which sent troops to Syria to fight for Assad's regime.

And yet these issues only come up in relation to our trade agreements with China. Why?

Only now are sanctions lifting against Iran and being applied to Russia so short of Russia buying London by the street, just how 'heavily' do we trade with those two?

The reason I cite the USA of is that while we are aware but don't question other countries' abuses we as a nation don't even notice the USA's continuance with the death penalty. Or we have become over familiar with it to the point of apathy.
Also, without US support Israel would have to check itself. Who, when thousands of Palestinians lie slain and Israel is running low on armaments, re-arms them?

We can be either a moral nation or a trading nation, but clearly not both at the same time...

Is that a the best capitalism can do? Small wonder some are tiring of it.

 

[markjay]

That, and their war in Yemen. House of Saud in disarray apparently. Two thirds want the king ousted. Reckoned to happen before the year is out.

H. Clinton as POTUS will ensure 'business as usual' - sadly.

The Americans always allied themselves with other nations based on US interests.

Moral values were mentioned, but it was mostly an afterthought.

If the House Of Saud collapses, the US will seek to ally themselves with whoever they can from those involved in the civil war that will almost certainly ensue.

 

[Bellow]

The hope in Saudi is that the transition (to a king prepared to enact reforms) will be painless.

 

[Deleted96908]

Nice thread guys, some supplementary info relating to previous comments:


The UK does still supply arms to Israel. (Edit I have the export license details somewhere if of interest)

Cat Smith: Labour shadow minister says Britain should stop selling arms to Israel


There's plenty of good solid material about Chinese debt - how else is risk assessed by lenders?

China’s Bond Market


US dollars are no long China's biggest 'export' - as of summer, net outflow reached $180Bn

China Slashes U.S. Debt Stake by $180 Billion, Bonds Shrug


Yep, China did issue $4.5Bn in London last week, but perhaps more significantly, the UK issued Renminbi denominated bonds last year.

UK government successfully issues a sovereign bond in China's currency, the renminbi (RMB).

 

[Deleted96908]

The hope in Saudi is that the transition (to a king prepared to enact reforms) will be painless.

I worked for King Fahd when he was Crown Prince at the Ministry of Defence & Aviation in Jeddah. Weird experience is all I am prepared to say.

 

[BIRMA]

If anyone is interested I subscribed free to ADVFN I found both it's morning and evening reports short and concise and gives you a good idea of what's going on.
It's the morning and evening euro market review.