Winter tyres in the summer

[jimti]

Is there any reason not to use winter tyres through the summer months, I work for a company running 20 cars and they are looking into the benefits of using winter tyres (at my suggestion) and have asked if they can be used in warmer weather as well, the cars do around 50,000 miles a year so they would be fitted with new tyres anyway by May or June, what are the pro's and cons of Winter tyres, do they make more noise, are they likely to wear faster and what about speed, are they good for motorways as well as normal road driving?
Sorry about so many questions, I have to get info to him PDQ while he is in a spending mood

 

[tagnut]

Is there any reason not to use winter tyres through the summer months, I work for a company running 20 cars and they are looking into the benefits of using winter tyres (at my suggestion) and have asked if they can be used in warmer weather as well, the cars do around 50,000 miles a year so they would be fitted with new tyres anyway by May or June, what are the pro's and cons of Winter tyres, do they make more noise, are they likely to wear faster and what about speed, are they good for motorways as well as normal road driving?
Sorry about so many questions, I have to get info to him PDQ while he is in a spending mood

Hi Jimti,

I'm no expert but my understanding is that summer tyres will wear more than winter tyres in winter and winter tyres will wear more in the summer. I don't know which of these scenarios would wear the most though

No reason why you can't use winter tyres in the summer although (as with using summer tyres in the winter) performance won't be as good. This is probably not so much of an issue given the better conditions.

I do find that my recently fitted Continental Winter contact 830P's are slightly noisier than my Continental Sport Contact 3's but this is minor. I don't have any issues with motorways at speed or any other road type.

The Pro's for winter tyres for a company from a business perspective in my view are that you are likely to have less accidents in the fleet (due to improved traction in wintry conditions) and be able to keep the fleet on the road in more extreme conditions.

Con's would be swapping all tyres in the fleet at the same time (i.e. early November) and the impact on cash flow. Also winter tyres should be changed when tread depth gets down to 3-4mm.

If you have a situation where tyres on your fleet vehicles are changed on average every 6 months anyway then going to winter tyres in the winter would be very easy to implement

I'm sure more knowledgeable people on this forum will jump in with more information. Just my 2p's worth

 

[Neiltodd]

we put winters on keep them on till they are done all year round,they last as long but are not quite as good in the wet.

 

[Bellow]

I read on a forum post recently that a Continental rep had said that if you had to choose between winter and summer tyre for all year round then choose the winter as the loss of grip in summer with a winter tyre is of a lesser margin than with a summer tyre in winter.

The cynic in me thinks, 'well, he would say that', but it's a pretty bold corporate statement he is making, and no doubt if he is referring to snow, the margin of difference in grip will be significant.

No mention of the other parameters though. Maybe worth contacting Continental directly.

 

[moonloops]

I had some winter tyres put on my old BMW 328i in error during the summer. Hit some rain and nearly span the car

Isn't there a tyre that's 50/50 summer winter ??? vredestein ?

 

[wemorgan]

I thought that most tyres fitted to cars in the UK were know as all-weather tyres, rather than summer tyres. Some sports cars do come with semi-slick tyres though.

I've read a tyre test where the stopping distance of summer vs. winter tyres in the wet depends on temperature. Less than 7C and the winter stops the car in a shorter distance than the summer tyre.

 

[jimti]

Thanks for the replies, I am getting a picture of what to tell the boss, would it be fare to assume that winter tyres below 3mm tread would still be reasonable in the warmer months as long as it is dry, the 3mm being needed for the snow etc
I have only ever used winter tyres on trucks and they were exceptionally good in the colder months, and in the spring seemed to be as good as normal tyres,
Would I be right to assume you cannot or should not mix normal and winter tyres on a car?

 

[Smatt]

Isn't there a tyre that's 50/50 summer winter ??? vredestein ?

Yes, Vredestein market their Quatrrac as a 'four season' tyre. I have had some since last winter & not had any problems. traction seems good & no excessive wear

 

[npuk]

I use Vredestein Quatrac all season tyres all year round. All season tyres would be more suitable to use all year round than winter tyres. Goodyear, Kumho, Hankook plus other major brands all make all season tyres.

 

[Rory]

I thought that most tyres fitted to cars in the UK were know as all-weather tyres, rather than summer tyres.

Nope - I've never seen anything other than summer tyres fitted in the UK.

I noticed when in the US that they seem to use all-weather tyres extensively.

 

[Sp!ke]

My wife's car has had winter tyres on for a couple of years summer and winter.

No problems with wear rates or noise but if you are really driving the car hard on a dry summers day the tyres do start to lose traction a little earlier than true summer tyres when cornering energetically but for normal driving you wouldn't be able to notice the difference.

I would say that they handle wet weather better than summer tyres due to the tread design with bigger, more plentiful water channels.

IMHO, the new generation of all season M&S tyres are probably the best single choice of tyre for our climate for any car apart from sports cars which may benefit from summer tyres for 6 months of the year.

 

[jimti]

My wife's car has had winter tyres on for a couple of years summer and winter.

No problems with wear rates or noise but if you are really driving the car hard on a dry summers day the tyres do start to lose traction a little earlier than true summer tyres when cornering energetically but for normal driving you wouldn't be able to notice the difference.

I would say that they handle wet weather better than summer tyres due to the tread design with bigger, more plentiful water channels.

IMHO, the new generation of all season M&S tyres are probably the best single choice of tyre for our climate for any car apart from sports cars which may benefit from summer tyres for 6 months of the year.

what are M&S tyres? I am guessing that isn't Marks and Sparks

 

[npuk]

Mud and Snow

 

[clk270]

I thought that most tyres fitted to cars in the UK were know as all-weather tyres, rather than summer tyres. Some sports cars do come with semi-slick tyres though.

95%+ are summer tyres, there are very few all season tyres supplied as standard, although at the narrower widths of small hatchbacks there is more chance the standard tyre choice will be less sporty in both tread design and compound.

I've read a tyre test where the stopping distance of summer vs. winter tyres in the wet depends on temperature. Less than 7C and the winter stops the car in a shorter distance than the summer tyre.

Absolutley correct, although in dry cold conditions the winter tyre only gains beklow 2 or 3'C. The stopping distnaces for a winter tyre at 20'C are a lot higher than a summer one.


Ift he OP wants peace of mind then look for an all season tyre like Nokian n-tyre or Goodyear all season.

 

[grober]

The problem in the UK is that many folks including people in the trade are only now becoming aware of the huge advances in winter/snow/all-weather tyres over recent years. People associate winter tyres with the old fashioned knobbly open tread tyres of bygone days which were a liability in any conditions other than deep snow or sand or mud. Things have moved on quite bit.
Main features of modern winter [ not snow] tyres is their rubber mix which contains a higher proportion of silica rather than carbon black. This means they retain their elasticity at low temperatures. There have also been advances in tread design with directional and asymetric tread patterns and tread siping [multiple little edges] to give improved traction. The penalty for this improved wet weather, snow and perhaps most important slush conditions is a slight increase in road noise and a decrease in roadholding in the dry --AT LIMITS most drivers should not experience in everyday driving!
As far as wear is concerned they start off with a slightly increased tread depth anyway altho for maximum performance they should be replaced at a slightly greater tread depth say 3/4 mm as has been said. Wear rates are easily the match for summer tyres including summer driving.
Even within the range of winter tyres offered by a range of manufacturers there is some choice between traction v noise level v roadholding/braking mainly in terms of tread design where you may wish to trade off a little traction against a quieter running tyre- its a matter of personal taste. Whatever by choosing a silica rich rubber mix which performs better at low temperatures you will gain a better performing tyre for the British climate all the year round . There is very little downside except that due to favoured European sizes there is some restriction to size choice particularly for the wider wheeled sizes. some background:-

http://www.nokiantyres.com/files/nokiantyres/tuote_esitteet_en/wintertyres_2010_EN.pdf

 

[grober]

I have unfortunately just thought of a reason why your fleet man may balk at this idea. The majority of winter tyres are down rated in the speed rating of their equivalent summer tyre. So while a summer tyre might have a V rating the equivalent winter would be H rated. That's not to say there aren't V rated winter/all weather tyres out there------ there are-----in certain makes and sizes! Your fleet man might want to check with his insurance company before proceeding if you can't source winter/allweather tyres that meet the manufacturer's speed ratings.

 

[tagnut]

I have unfortunately just thought of a reason why your fleet man may balk at this idea. The majority of winter tyres are down rated in the speed rating of their equivalent summer tyre. So while a summer tyre might have a V rating the equivalent winter would be H rated. That's not to say there aren't V rated winter/all weather tyres out there------ there are-----in certain makes and sizes! Your fleet man might want to check with his insurance company before proceeding if you can't source winter/allweather tyres that meet the manufacturer's speed ratings.

Whilst this is absolutely correct an H rating is for speeds up to 130mph. No driver who wants to keep his license will be doing more than this on UK roads

 

[Stratman]

I may be wrong (it's a common occurence) but I believe it's a legal requirement that the correct speed rated tyre must be used. It doesn't matter if you'll never hit your derestricted SL55's top speed, you still need to use the correct speed rating.

Plus, this from Grober's Nokian link:-

"The safe service life for tyres is six (6) years. The max-
imum life is ten (10) years. The safe minimum tread
depth for winter tyres is 4 mm. We do not recommend
winter tyres (M+S) to be used under summer conditions.Between seasons, the tyres must be stored in a cool,
dark and dry space. The tyres must not touch solvent
substances such as oil, gasoline or lubricants"

 

[grober]

Whilst this is absolutely correct an H rating is for speeds up to 130mph. No driver who wants to keep his license will be doing more than this on UK roads

I completely agree with you, however in the UK with its 70mph speed limit insurance companies appear to use the speed rating of a tyre as a measure of its overall performance rather than just its maximum speed. If you stuck an H rated tyre winter tyre on a high performance Mercedes which normally runs a W or Z rated summer tyre you would be exposing yourself to challenge in the event of a claim especially if it was demonstrated that a V or W rated winter tyre was commercially available?

 

[tagnut]

I completely agree with you, however in the UK with its 70mph speed limit insurance companies appear to use the speed rating of a tyre as a measure of its overall performance rather than just its maximum speed. If you stuck an H rated tyre winter tyre on a high performance Mercedes which normally runs a W or Z rated summer tyre you would be exposing yourself to challenge in the event of a claim especially if it was demonstrated that a V or W rated winter tyre was commercially available?

Thanks Graeme,

On the face of it this seems absurd. I have just had Continental Winter Contact 830P's fitted to my E320 cdi. These are V rated (the highest available that I could find for these tyres) and technically don't rate up to the maximum speed of the vehicle (149mph for the tyres, 151mph for the car). I haven't checked but would assume the standard tyre rating for my car is probably Z

It seems a bit strange that you could be penalised by your insurance company for fitting winter tyres just because you can't get them in a rating sufficient to top more than 150mph when the maximum speed limit in the UK is less than half this speed.

Given this I don't see how I could fit winter tyres without invalidating my insurance if what you're saying is correct

I take your point on fitting the most appropriate speed available. For the fleet manager moving to winter tyres he would need to try to match the speed rating of the existing fleets tyres. If they were performance vehicles though he would have the same issue.

Should I be telling my insurance company what tyres I've had fitted?

Regards,