I have not read that statement anywhere , but if that was the case , I would not have overtaken under those circumstances , and agree the overtaking driver was in the wrong .
It still comes down to timing and who did what first .
I have not read that statement anywhere , but if that was the case , I would not have overtaken under those circumstances , and agree the overtaking driver was in the wrong .
It still comes down to timing and who did what first .
Spot on !
Regardless of how much 'in the right' you might feel you are - just check your mirror to make sure it is safe before turning .
Simples !
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http://www.metro.co.uk/news/107955-texting-driver-jailed-for-death-crash
The two cases are not similar, but just to say that the court simply decides whose guilt is greater, as clearly both parties committed a traffic offense (texting, and jumping a red light) leading to the collision. A court decision does not necessarily absolve the not-convicted party of any responsibility.
Unfortunately both - drivers texting at the wheel and cyclist jumping red lights - are all too common on our roads, and eventually the two met with fatal consequences.
Had either of them not taken the illegal action that they did in the seconds before the crash, the cyclist would have been alive, and the driver spared jail.
And this also demonstrates the points made above regarding survival attitude to driving.
Incidentally, this also goes back to a previous point I made regarding why we should always stop at a red light even when we can't see any cars about - and why checking your wing mirror when turning (right or left) should be a second nature.
The two cases are not similar, but just to say that the court simply decides whose guilt is greater, as clearly both parties committed a traffic offense (texting, and jumping a red light) leading to the collision. A court decision does not necessarily absolve the not-convicted party of any responsibility.
Unfortunately both - drivers texting at the wheel and cyclist jumping red lights - are all too common on our roads, and eventually the two met with fatal consequences.
Had either of them not taken the illegal action that they did in the seconds before the crash, the cyclist would have been alive, and the driver spared jail.
And this also demonstrates the points made above regarding survival attitude to driving.
Incidentally, this also goes back to a previous point I made regarding why we should always stop at a red light even when we can't see any cars about - and why checking your wing mirror when turning (right or left) should be a second nature.
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The above is a good example of it taking 'two to tango' and why you always need to watch out for what someone else is doing .
Just as another example of why it is vital to check behind before turning right , even allowing that you have slowed in a timely manner , signalled etc ; you might even be one of several cars turning right at a set of traffic lights and simply following others through the junction : what if a vehicle coming up behind suffers total brake failure and cannot stop - hence rather than plough into the last car in the queue he takes his chances and goes down the outside ? If you carry out a mirror check just before starting to turn , you will see him coming and be able to avoid being 'T-boned' on the junction .
We all have a duty to be aware of our surroundings , and to expect the unexpected on the roads , and we can all become safer drivers just by being a bit more alert .
While the guy who made the overtake might have been a reckless **** ; a driver who drives around in a dream , blind to everything that is going on around them is just as bad , if not worse .
Just as another example of why it is vital to check behind before turning right , even allowing that you have slowed in a timely manner , signalled etc ; you might even be one of several cars turning right at a set of traffic lights and simply following others through the junction : what if a vehicle coming up behind suffers total brake failure and cannot stop - hence rather than plough into the last car in the queue he takes his chances and goes down the outside ? If you carry out a mirror check just before starting to turn , you will see him coming and be able to avoid being 'T-boned' on the junction .
We all have a duty to be aware of our surroundings , and to expect the unexpected on the roads , and we can all become safer drivers just by being a bit more alert .
While the guy who made the overtake might have been a reckless **** ; a driver who drives around in a dream , blind to everything that is going on around them is just as bad , if not worse .
These days people are obsessed with their rights but conveniently forget about their responsibilities.
finisterre
Active Member
'End of' ?
I don't think so. It is pretty clear from this thread that the majority of drivers here would not have lost their families.
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I quite often drive a slow vehicle on country roads. The OP photo is a spot where I would probably slow and indicate left to allow followers to pass. It is also somewhere I would anticipate others may see an opportunity to pass.
If I was pulling up onto the viewing point I would probably let stuff behind me pass before the manoeuvre if it looked likely that placing myself safe was going to take more than a few seconds. From my point of view this lady must be partially culpable as there is no way I would have ended up in the drink.
And yes I would overtake there.
OK, I have stated my view and stand by it. All I will add is that in terms of all of us staying safe on the roads, it is surely logical that motorists do not embark on risky actions in the first place rather than expecting others to react appropriately to nullify their folly.
If you truly believe Derek that it is absolutely vital to do everything 'exactly right' every time (your words), then I fail to see how you can disagree with that...
If you truly believe Derek that it is absolutely vital to do everything 'exactly right' every time (your words), then I fail to see how you can disagree with that...
D
Deleted member 65149
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Someone mentioned earlier examples of incident situations that have been avoided through extra care. I had one not too disimilar to what we've all been discussing here.
I used to live on an A road that was about 3 cars width wide and had a 30 limit. Most of the time I arrived home from the direction that meant I had to turn right into my narrow driveway. One early evening I followed my usual procedure of checking mirrors then indicating then easing to the centre of the road as I slowed in readiness to turn right. There was no oncoming traffic and I could have just gone ahead and made the turn. But fortunately I never make such a move without checking my mirrors again. Despite having left room to overtake on my left, a loon decided to charge past on my right. Had I not taken care to ensure that my intended route would remain clear, I may not have been writing this now. Instead of potential death or deaths, nothing happened (apart from me telling the other driver that I'd see him next Thursday!).
So in the case in question here, I'm of the opinion that the woman was partly to blame. The major fault lay with the idiot in a hurry, but the woman can't be completely absolved of all blame. However she will be suffering for the rest of her life, possibly even wondering whether she could have done something to prevent the death of her family members.
Let's hope we can all learn from this and take more care when overtaking and when turning right.
I used to live on an A road that was about 3 cars width wide and had a 30 limit. Most of the time I arrived home from the direction that meant I had to turn right into my narrow driveway. One early evening I followed my usual procedure of checking mirrors then indicating then easing to the centre of the road as I slowed in readiness to turn right. There was no oncoming traffic and I could have just gone ahead and made the turn. But fortunately I never make such a move without checking my mirrors again. Despite having left room to overtake on my left, a loon decided to charge past on my right. Had I not taken care to ensure that my intended route would remain clear, I may not have been writing this now. Instead of potential death or deaths, nothing happened (apart from me telling the other driver that I'd see him next Thursday!).
So in the case in question here, I'm of the opinion that the woman was partly to blame. The major fault lay with the idiot in a hurry, but the woman can't be completely absolved of all blame. However she will be suffering for the rest of her life, possibly even wondering whether she could have done something to prevent the death of her family members.
Let's hope we can all learn from this and take more care when overtaking and when turning right.
finisterre
Active Member
Mercy, I am not dismissing your analysis, I just wanted to disagree with the 'end of' bit.
There is another thing here which no one seems to have addressed and that is how narrow the viewpoint parking area actually is. From the OP picture it looks to slope away and have a gravel surface. I would be pretty cautious pulling over onto that. I can imagine the lady concerned wasn't particularly keen to get all four wheels onto the gravel before she was sure the car would stop in control. Which might have left her nearside rear somewhat exposed.
I think there were a few unfortunate factors conspiring together here.
There is another thing here which no one seems to have addressed and that is how narrow the viewpoint parking area actually is. From the OP picture it looks to slope away and have a gravel surface. I would be pretty cautious pulling over onto that. I can imagine the lady concerned wasn't particularly keen to get all four wheels onto the gravel before she was sure the car would stop in control. Which might have left her nearside rear somewhat exposed.
I think there were a few unfortunate factors conspiring together here.
D
Deleted member 65149
Guest
I only have the OP's original photo to go on, but had I been driving there as a tourist I wouldn't have attempted to turn right into that pseudo layby because it looks as though pulling out again could be dangerous. From the layby I would think that the view around the bend would be restricted so I wouldn't know if anything was coming on that side of the road. Another reason for a small part of the culpability to be attributed to the woman? And if my assumption about restricted views is correct, then the local council should also take some of the blame for having the layby there. (Did I read another post that it has now been removed?)
Even better than my suggestion, depending on other circumstances.
So as I expected, this thread has been of benefit to me. Whilst I'm 100% sure of my diligence with observation, my initial thoughts on the scenario- being mid-turn on a slow exit when a car then appears and hits from behind- was that it was just a risk that had to be taken.
I now have 2 ways to greatly minimise that risk. I hope that, in the real situation, I'd have instinctively taken one of those actions- to be honest, I'm not so sure. But I'm now confident for the future.
GreetMe
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Yes, there was a picture of it in one of the online articles: it's now been filled in.
finisterre
Active Member
There is something a bit sad about the loss of this viewpoint because of an accident. I can see the highway engineers have good reason to prevent a recurrence, and it is an easy fix, engineering in secondary safety makes sense, plus they would definitely get it in the neck if it did happen again.
Still...
(Being an old romantic I am imagining that drovers have been resting here for centuries taking in the view and it was a remnant of a more innocent age.)
Still...
(Being an old romantic I am imagining that drovers have been resting here for centuries taking in the view and it was a remnant of a more innocent age.)
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After my accident (mentioned earlier in thread) I was charged with dangerous driving. The reason being that some d!ckhead van driver claimed I'd been going faster than 60mph. The judge (once he'd heard all the other witnesses) halted proceedings to demand the prosecution furnish him by the week's end exactly why this lie was presented as evidence. But that still wasn't enough to drop the charge to one of careless driving. That only ocurred once I had convinced the judge that I hadn't even known of the lead cars presence, let alone intention, given the pathetic road positioning adopted by others. His assumption was that I'd seen it and gone 'what the hell, I'll give it a go anyway'.
Broadly agree, but see above for why it can be a dual-edged sword.
But they don't. They rely on the protection of a steel shell, the hope that others will never err, and in the most ridiculous of people - a belief that a higher power keeps them safe.
Time to step up - for the safety of all.
st4
Banned
What a thread. Thats all I will say. A real MBC classic.
