190 3.0/3.2 turbo question thread :)

[Mark300SL]

As some of you may be aware - I am looking at a 190 2.6 tonight with the intention of fitting either a 320 24v or a vanilla M103 3.0 12v
The car is likely to end up turbocharged although this is in no way a definate decision at this point. Consequently I have been researching the M103 engine and as I thought it is only internally different from the 2.6 already fitted.
I was however amazed to find the difference was not where I thought it would be in the stroke but in the bore size. This leads me to an interesting option of reboring the existing engine and replacing all gaskets seals and bearings, overhauling the head and effectively ending up with a new engine ready for any future turbo applications. This assumes the rebore doesn't exceed the liner thickness.

So my little list of questions to the more educated...

1. Does anyone know of a 2.6 that has actually been bored to 3.0 - at this moment in time it is a massive assumption that this is possible, hopefully without replacing liners.

2. Anyone know of aftermarket or forged piston suppliers? I cant seem to find any piston suppliers for M103 3.0 ATM, but I will continue to hunt down Mahle spares until I find something. Otherwise JE will have to make yet another set of customs for me.

3. Are the Gudgeon pins circliped or press fit ?

4. Finally - does anyone know of a Hughes/Mosselman turbo kit for sale? It doesnt need to be complete but manifolds and downpipe would be a realistic minimum. We rebuild our own turbos so turbo condition is not really that relevant*
Kit can be M103 or M104 - the kit is more likely to determine the final engine choice than anything else.


If you got this far without falling asleep - thanks for reading


Mark

* yes I do have access to a turbo balancer - in my mates shed

 

[Will]

Hi Mark,

Sounds like an interesting project you've got planned

Regards the engine conversion and turbocharging, you could do a lot worse than to have a look over at www.mercedes190oc.com and/or www.mercedes190.co.uk

There's quite a few 'interesting' coversions that have been carried out here in the UK and from abroad - large capacity engines, larger straight sixes (inc. C36 engines), turbo charged conversions etc.

I personally think that something you might not have considered could be a great option for somebody with your tuning and turbocharging experience - the 2.3-16 valve engine.

In NA form it makes a respectible 185bhp, but the beauty of the main engine itself is that it is very, very stong and has loads of tuning potential. Cosworth designed and built cylinder head with four valves per cylinder, very strong bottom end and forged pistons as standard. It's also an 'oversquare' engine I believe.

There are several turbo-charged conversions of this engine and they seem to take to it very well, some of them running 400+ bhp.

I know of a guy who has a great amount of knowlege with these conversions, he runs a tuning company in Sweden and is very open and helpful with information and tuning advice - might be worth contacting him if this is a route that interests you? I believe he is currently building another engine up to an outrageous specification, I'm sure I've heard rumours of power output well up in the hundreds, much more than his earlier 450bhp+ engine. I think he would also be able to advise you on other aspects, such as gearbox options etc to handle the massive hike in power (the 2.3-16 and 2.5-16 come as standard with a very good 'getrag' 5-speed manual gearbox, with a dogleg layout and a limited-slip differential, or ASD.

What are your final plans for this car, what would you like to achieve with it - is it for track day use, 1/4 miles or just as a fun car to build and drive?

Good luck with the project, and of course keep us all updated

Will

 

[Will]

Also to add, if you're absolutely set on a 3.0 straight six, I did see a twin turbo (Turbo Technics) 300 coupe on eBay a while back, not sure if it's still available? Could be a good donor for the project - engine, turbos (which were all new/rebuilt IIRC) etc.

I'll see if I can dig the link out.

Just a thought

Will

 

[Will]

For inspiration:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110234220964

Might not be what you're after (as he's already rebuilt parts, and I get the feeling you'd rather do stuff to your own spec)?

Will

 

[Will]

Ermm, sorry to keep rambling on - but have you seen this Mark!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MERCEDES-190-...tcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Looks like more of a start than you could ever have wised for?!!

Will

 

[Mark300SL]

Ermm, sorry to keep rambling on - but have you seen this Mark!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MERCEDES-190-...tcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Looks like more of a start than you could ever have wised for?!!

Will

Cheers

I emailed him yesterday and have exchanged emails today - what worries me is the fact that he is breaking the car, though I have pics of it and he reckons it need a decent amount of tidying up.
We have discussed a price for the whole car but I also need to be realisitic, He converted the car himself, and also has a 5.0 V8 32 valve version . If he is so handy then why is he breaking a perfectly good car?


More questions than answers in this case - but I am keeping my eye on it


Mark

 

[grober]

I don't think you can bore out the 2.6 to 3 litres since the 2.6 has water passages between the cylinders whereas the 3 litre has siamesed bores. All the AMG conversions tend to use stroked versions of the standard straight six engines to get the extra cc's if I remember correctly/

 

[Mark300SL]

Much appreciated - that is the sort of info I am sorely lacking at the moment
All the info I have sen to date was that essentially the only difference between these was the bore size - However M103 3.0 engiens are hardly rare

I'm sure I will be fine with the differences in a few months

 

[KLP 92]

The easiest and cheapest option will be to buy a M103 3 litre lump and drop it in. Buy a Turbo Technics Twin Turbo kit, i just happen to have a brand new one sat here

 

[Mark300SL]

noted and message sent