I have seen very variable original AMG work so it wouldnt surprise me if that bumper was fitted like that originally.
It took my body shop a while to get mine right.
It took my body shop a while to get mine right.
500SEC AMG Widebody - Low miles
Were Stratton's the only UK dealer licensed by AMG?
Other than a potential dealer sticker in/on the car & the service book, is there anything else that would help in identifying where the work was done. Is it possible that the car was sold by a different dealership & then taken to Strattons for the conversion works?
Also are AMG part nos. stamped anywhere on the wings or front & rear spoilers?
Thanks.
Red C220
MB Enthusiast
Strattons had the UK Concession for AMG before the agreement/merger with Mercedes. As afar as I know they were the only ones in the UK - I may be corrected on that though.
Back then, you didn't order an AMG like you do now, you bought a new SEC then took it to Strattons for the conversion. Or bought it at Stratton and got them to undertake the work. It was very expensive, more than Rolls, Bentley, Aston or Ferrari expensive.
As a result, most are documented as there really wasn't that many done.
Jay will actually be able to advise about part numbers of the front wings, He has a genuine set on his widebody (fibreglass) and like he says - the fitting was sometimes hit and miss. I know of a Stratton car that had expanding foam in the arches to fill out the gap! All behind the original panel work.
Go in with your eye's open and extract as much information as you can. The owner seems to know it's not a Stratton car and is appearing to be upfront about that. That suggests He knows how and where it was built.
Back then, you didn't order an AMG like you do now, you bought a new SEC then took it to Strattons for the conversion. Or bought it at Stratton and got them to undertake the work. It was very expensive, more than Rolls, Bentley, Aston or Ferrari expensive.
As a result, most are documented as there really wasn't that many done.
Jay will actually be able to advise about part numbers of the front wings, He has a genuine set on his widebody (fibreglass) and like he says - the fitting was sometimes hit and miss. I know of a Stratton car that had expanding foam in the arches to fill out the gap! All behind the original panel work.
Go in with your eye's open and extract as much information as you can. The owner seems to know it's not a Stratton car and is appearing to be upfront about that. That suggests He knows how and where it was built.
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Vlad
MB Enthusiast
Duncan Hamilton also had a contract with AMG pre merger, although Strattons were by far the more productive of the two.
Red C220
MB Enthusiast
^ didn't know that Vlad. Thanks.
Dee-124CAB
MB Enthusiast
Does it matter to you weather the car was converted by Strattons or not?
Yes it would be nice, and if there is provinence for it, even better.... but the thing thats most important to me here is that the kit and other AMG parts used are genuine....Which seems to be the case, judging by what others have said.
The thing to consider here is, is the car still a genuine AMG wide body if it was converted by anyone other than Strattons (or any other official consessionaire), in my eyes yes, as long as the parts used were genuine....
Another thing to remember is that if the kit was put on by someone else there is a good chance it may even have been put on better than Strattons.....
There is a good chance some may not agree with my opinion here, but there is no point comparing to other cars where kits and engines have been added on at a later date, as this whole 'Strattons' thing always divides...
Red C220
MB Enthusiast
I know exactly what you're saying. Jay's car is a perfect example of this.
It's been built using genuine bits to a standard that is proabably as good, if not better than original. But it's a recreaction not an original car - that effects the value.
It's value that the OP is questioning. If this is an AMG (Stratton) car, it's a steal at £9K, if it's an aftermarket (Jay type car) made using genuine parts it's still pretty damn good value. If it's cobbled together with a fibreglass copy is it worth the same?
It's still a widebody SEC whatever it's provenance and in reality without any history it's value is purely based on condition and the number of genuine parts attached to it.
It's been for sale for two years + which suggets not is all what it seems. Certainly worth a look though.
It's been built using genuine bits to a standard that is proabably as good, if not better than original. But it's a recreaction not an original car - that effects the value.
It's value that the OP is questioning. If this is an AMG (Stratton) car, it's a steal at £9K, if it's an aftermarket (Jay type car) made using genuine parts it's still pretty damn good value. If it's cobbled together with a fibreglass copy is it worth the same?
It's still a widebody SEC whatever it's provenance and in reality without any history it's value is purely based on condition and the number of genuine parts attached to it.
It's been for sale for two years + which suggets not is all what it seems. Certainly worth a look though.
Dee-124CAB
MB Enthusiast
Yes it is a difficult one, but i wouldnt say Jays is aftermarket in any way shape or form... recreation, ok, but replica, definently not...
For me the thing that makes these widebodys genuine is the use of genuine parts not any vin number or plaque, or build sheet, its not like they were all made in Affalterbach. (Are strattons records even available?..did they even keep records/details) If strattons were willing to sell you the kit thats good enough for me...
But like you say, there are people out there that would pay the extra for a Strattons creation, that leaves the others as bargains for the rest of us...
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Red C220
MB Enthusiast
You then have to add the fact that not all these cars were built quite the same, even the factory ones.
Some had fibregalss wings (like Jays) others were all built using sheet metal (on which you'll find no part numbers whatsoever despite them being AMG parts). That's what makes the provenance so important - there really may be no way of determining actually who built it or even what parts were used.
Some had fibregalss wings (like Jays) others were all built using sheet metal (on which you'll find no part numbers whatsoever despite them being AMG parts). That's what makes the provenance so important - there really may be no way of determining actually who built it or even what parts were used.
Ok, I went and saw the car this morning, the following is a brief summary.
Overall its quite presentable, but its at £9k for the reason that it needs some tidying;
Interior
+ The passenger headrest button is missing, as is the switchable economy to sport button.
+ The walnut fascia to the front ashtray was loose & came away easily.
+ The rearview mirror has been heavily knocked at some point in its life & is also broken.
+ The fastening clip to one of the rear seat cards is broken, as is one of the clips for the rear quarter roof pillar trim.
+ The walnut veneer is slightly milky on the centre consul.
+ The roof lining is also starting to come away towards the rear.
Nothing major, and all fixable, if it was me selling then I would have sorted these beforehand.
Exterior
The car was originally white, then resprayed metallic mauve by the last owner (who bought it in 1996), its now been returned to white and to a reasonably high standard, its a shame there a couple of run marks visible, but you do have to hunt for them and I'm probably being overly critical (the main of which are on the grill, which I'd want to change anyway). The doors were removed for the respray (2yrs ago) & the drivers door has not been aligned that well, it needs fettling, also the drivers door mirror is cracked. Again niggling points, but nothing major. The centre box to the exhaust will need replacing before the next mot too.
The missing and broken trim & mirror aren't a big issue as I have another SEC that I'm looking to break.
The interior is black leather with dark purple piping & purple leather on the doors (which I quite like), I thought this might be original AMG, however I was told that this was done when the car was resprayed mauve (the same time that the original AMG alloys were swapped out for the trashy wheels that are on it now).
The bodywork is all original, AMG part numbers are on the front wings, front spoiler & rear valance, I not so sure that the rear spolier is genuine (IMHO it's over the top stlyling, some may disagree) and I also have the smaller (AMG) lip spoiler from the car thats going to be broken.
Apart from one discrepancy, all the paperwork seems to back up the mileage, although unfortunately there's no evidence as to where the widebody conversion was originally done. Oh, and to answer Red C220, the springs are red as opposed to the usual black. The white fascia dials are also much nicer than expected. I also asked if any mods had been done to the engine, he's of the opinion that the engine is completely standard, but really doesn't know and this part of the history is lost. So AMG parts are limited to wb conversion, suspension (I think), white dials & steering wheel.
The guy was more than happy for me to disappear on a test drive, considering the miniscule mileage its covered over the past few years the car drives faultlessly, all electrics work & no apparent issues.
We've agreed a price, but this is on the proviso that when inspected this week there are no major issues over and above those above. So, assuming that all is ok when checked over, by someone that knows things a little more than me, and all is ok then I'll be picking the car up in the very near future.
Overall its quite presentable, but its at £9k for the reason that it needs some tidying;
Interior
+ The passenger headrest button is missing, as is the switchable economy to sport button.
+ The walnut fascia to the front ashtray was loose & came away easily.
+ The rearview mirror has been heavily knocked at some point in its life & is also broken.
+ The fastening clip to one of the rear seat cards is broken, as is one of the clips for the rear quarter roof pillar trim.
+ The walnut veneer is slightly milky on the centre consul.
+ The roof lining is also starting to come away towards the rear.
Nothing major, and all fixable, if it was me selling then I would have sorted these beforehand.
Exterior
The car was originally white, then resprayed metallic mauve by the last owner (who bought it in 1996), its now been returned to white and to a reasonably high standard, its a shame there a couple of run marks visible, but you do have to hunt for them and I'm probably being overly critical (the main of which are on the grill, which I'd want to change anyway). The doors were removed for the respray (2yrs ago) & the drivers door has not been aligned that well, it needs fettling, also the drivers door mirror is cracked. Again niggling points, but nothing major. The centre box to the exhaust will need replacing before the next mot too.
The missing and broken trim & mirror aren't a big issue as I have another SEC that I'm looking to break.
The interior is black leather with dark purple piping & purple leather on the doors (which I quite like), I thought this might be original AMG, however I was told that this was done when the car was resprayed mauve (the same time that the original AMG alloys were swapped out for the trashy wheels that are on it now).
The bodywork is all original, AMG part numbers are on the front wings, front spoiler & rear valance, I not so sure that the rear spolier is genuine (IMHO it's over the top stlyling, some may disagree) and I also have the smaller (AMG) lip spoiler from the car thats going to be broken.
Apart from one discrepancy, all the paperwork seems to back up the mileage, although unfortunately there's no evidence as to where the widebody conversion was originally done. Oh, and to answer Red C220, the springs are red as opposed to the usual black. The white fascia dials are also much nicer than expected. I also asked if any mods had been done to the engine, he's of the opinion that the engine is completely standard, but really doesn't know and this part of the history is lost. So AMG parts are limited to wb conversion, suspension (I think), white dials & steering wheel.
The guy was more than happy for me to disappear on a test drive, considering the miniscule mileage its covered over the past few years the car drives faultlessly, all electrics work & no apparent issues.
We've agreed a price, but this is on the proviso that when inspected this week there are no major issues over and above those above. So, assuming that all is ok when checked over, by someone that knows things a little more than me, and all is ok then I'll be picking the car up in the very near future.
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Nice one Nero. Sounds like it will be in good hands soon.
Red C220
MB Enthusiast
All the interior stuff is normal for an SEC of this age.
Not sure the red springs are AMG (but I could be corrected on that).
Sounds like an ideal project, if you get it for the right money and restore sympathetically then it will make a nice motor.
Changing the wheels for something original, Penta or OZ split rims and sorting the ride height would transform the car immediately, never mind all the other bits.
Looking forward to reading more about this as it progresses.
Which end of Surrey are you Nero?
Not sure the red springs are AMG (but I could be corrected on that).
Sounds like an ideal project, if you get it for the right money and restore sympathetically then it will make a nice motor.
Changing the wheels for something original, Penta or OZ split rims and sorting the ride height would transform the car immediately, never mind all the other bits.
Looking forward to reading more about this as it progresses.
Which end of Surrey are you Nero?
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Sounds like a great project - good luck with this!
Dee-124CAB
MB Enthusiast
Congrats and well done striking a deal!....
what was it like under the rear screen?
what was it like under the rear screen?
A small amount (& I mean small) of condensation on the inside of the window, but the parcel shelf was bone dry. Signs of rust on the underside of the parcel shelf, but really very minor (I'm being picky) - same for the wheel arch wells but there the carpet felt slightly damp (not wet) to touch, but if this had been leaking badly then this would have been sodden considering the car's been sat outside.
nick.ged
Active Member
other amg suppliers, listed on the members only advert were;
Derwent vehicles, leeds;
riverdale of reading ;
bargate autosport boston, Lincoln;
riverdale of brighton
were these guys only offering 'badges and steering wheels', or were they doing body conversions?
Derwent vehicles, leeds;
riverdale of reading ;
bargate autosport boston, Lincoln;
riverdale of brighton
were these guys only offering 'badges and steering wheels', or were they doing body conversions?
Missed that bit... Pretty much smack in the middle!
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Didn't jay or akash have a set of the correct negative offset pentas for sale ?
Red C220
MB Enthusiast
I'm Godstone, I may have to pop over and take a look if you finally go ahead with this!
As a matter of course it's worth removing the rear screen, if there's a little bit of milkyness in the rear screen it's likely it's gone under the rubber seal..
It's a good job the parcel shelf is solid, that's no longer available, it's a single piece all manufactured with the rear seat steelwork (and was £750 10 + years ago). However you can buy a small repair panel for the base of the rear screen (the bit between the boot lid and screen) from any dealer for not a great deal of money.
Have a look on Jays widebody thread - he replaced this panel, I would budget to do this as a matter of course.
Red C220
MB Enthusiast
Nero did you do the deal on the widebody?
