A Brilliant device

[sspeed]

At the risk of an outcry of heresy from y'all I am going to recommend a device I have used for many years on many different cars I have owned.
It is a suction device for removing oil (and other fluids) from engines. It was originally developed for marine engines as they don’t have an accessible sump plug (obviously).
The device I am talking of is a “PELA” oil extractor..
The version I use on my C270 CDI is here:
I cannot recommend the following product highly enough.. Its the best labor saving device I have ever bought..

http://www.cdet.co.uk/catalogue/prod...roductid=PL650

I change my engine oil about every 6 / 7000 miles (half the manufacturers recommended mileage). I go for a drive to warm up the engine . . . Wait 10 minutes for the oil to settle, then push the narrow tube (you are supplied with 2 different diameter tubes) down the dipstick tube all the way till you feel it hit the sump floor..
You then give about 8 or 10 strokes of the devices plunger and sit back for about 5 or 6 minutes..
My particular suction device holds 6 liters so I stop it at about 4 liters and empty it into a Jerry can (holds 20 liters)..Then I re-attach the tube to the suction device and pump the plunger...Lo and behold you will remove another 2 - 2.5 liters of oil (depending on the level you had in the sump).
There is one more big advantage you get from using this device.. When I have removed the oil filter there is a pool of dirty oil in the bottom of the oil filter housing. I use the end of the tube to literally vacuum this out.. This half cupful of oil would NOT normally be removed.
I once chatted to a BMW service manager off the record about this device cos I used to own a BMW 330D which I did intermediate oil/filter changes on.. He said "They are brilliant...Between you and I we use a suction device when we service our cars".. Yes you read this correctly...BMW use this method. If its good enough for them then I am more than happy to use it for my car.
He then went on to say that “This Long life servicing is boll**ks.. It originated because each manufacturer wanted to make its own brand appealing to fleet buyers.. If brand A has a service at 10k but brand B has a service at 14k then which brand do you think the fleet buyer will go for”?
I originally posted this on the BMW Forum and also “The other side” and when I sung this devices praise, I got lots of negativity about " How can you be sure it gets all the oil out" etc, etc.
I had to laugh because this criticism was from owners that were happy to trust the manufacturers recommendation of leaving oil in the engine for 15,000 miles.. As far as I am concerned, even if I only remove 95% but I change it twice as often as recommended then I am on the right track.
On the subject of “being sure it removes all the oil” there is a guy on “The other side” that put his C270 onto a 4 wheel lift.. Drained the oil with this suction device and then for devilment removed the sump plug… “Not a drop came out” is what he says..
The reason I use it is obvious.. I don’t have access to a 4 wheel lift and driving the car up onto ramps would mean errrr its not level. More importantly it makes a tedious and messy job very easy and clean to do.
As stated earlier I do an intermediate Oil / Filter change and then have an official service without telling the garages that I molly coddle my engine.
Lastly I don't work for PELA and have nothing am in no way connected with this company..
I just recognize a damned good product that for once does what it says on the tin !!
Regards,
Simon

 

[grober]

Its been discussed several time before-- http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/engine/70649-w124-oil-change.html but you are right they are a very good labour saving device.

 

[SL300-24]

I bought one when i had a smart roadster with no sump plug. It really worked well. I would also recommend it for interim oil changes.

 

[lynall]

I dont know how much oil a 270 holds but mine and the wifes cars both take nearly 8 litres so i bought mine from snap on £80 8 litre capacity, looks very similiar probably made by same people.


Lynall

 

[skemball]

whats the benefit of chainging the oil more frequently than required?

 

[Lugy]

That's something I plan on purchasing, to hell with all this lying under a car for all the oil to flow down your hand .

My dad uses an air powered one I think.

 

[Beetnik]

whats the benefit of chainging the oil more frequently than required?

Marginal to none.

 

[Aoraki]

I change the oil in my GSX750 every 1500 miles, but that does rev to 12000 ish!

 

[sspeed]

Marginal to none.

As I was told by a BMW service foreman...
“This Long life servicing is boll**ks.. It originated because each manufacturer wanted to make its own brand appealing to fleet buyers.. If brand A has a service at 10k but brand B has a service at 14k then which brand do you think the fleet buyer will go for”?

I shall change my oil every 7k and obviously we all do what we are comfortable with...
As a matter of interest if it makes zero difference then why do engines feel sooo much smoother with new oil in?

On a slightly different note (but I can cos its my post) remember that not all that long ago auto gearboxes were "sealed for life" according to mercedes.. Remember they are NOT subject to the carbon deposits that engine oil is..
Now look eee here.. All of a sudden those very same gearboxes need ATF to be changed every 40k..

I therefore rest my case !

 

[lynall]

Ive always changed the oil in our cars every 5k, because i have always done so, so there

But to be fair with todays oils i should really extend this to 10k but it just feels wrong.

Especially as 112 and 113 engines are so tough.

Plus at 5k theres always a list of other stuff to do.






Lynall

 

[sspeed]

Hi Lynall,
With me I have always halved whatever mileage the manufacturers recommend.
Besides, I have never heard of anyone wrecking an engine by changing the engine oil too regularly..
Your suction device is bigger than mine !!!
Mine is a 6.5 litre job..

I already meantioned somewhere in an earlier post that there was a guy on "THE OTHER SIDE" with the same engine as me who decided to settle the argument once and for all about "Your suction device wont remove all the oil"..
He drove his onto a 4 wheel lift.. Used the PELA device and then removed the drain bolt.. His exact words were "Nothing came out"..
Also as mentioned by me, you have the big advantage of being able to suck the dregs from the oil filter housing.. That isnt done with a conventional oil change..
But then you know all this because like me, you are a converted user of these devices..
Well done !

 

[timskemp]

whats the benefit of chainging the oil more frequently than required?

There's no harm, but the qualities of oil change with time and use, if you change the oil mid-service in a W211 it sticks another 2000 odd miles on the "service due" indicator.

 

[flango]

Marginal to none.

Not true a lot of the long life oil marketing spiel is all BS. Synthetics are not all they are cracked up to be and can actually be detrimental to certain engines. Take a look at the likes of Castrol Magnatec and look what its made from and then ask yourself the question is this really a long life oil? Also take a very close look at Mobil 1.

I drop my CLK Oil every 3000 miles as its only in weekend use, my wifes Puma I used to drop every 5000 miles. Both engines were sweet with high compression and no loss of BHP. When we as a family were doing high mileage most of our cars were sold on with +180,000 miles on them the engines were still sweet and the cars in excellent condition. I firmly believe the more frequent oil changes contributed greatly to their reliability and good mpg.

 

[flango]

The truth about synthetics

You might be interested in this which is a quote from Fuchs / Silkolenes Chief Chemist and Head of Synthetic development.

Quote:

Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the “Ester” types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10 times more than high quality mineral oils. The cheapest synthetics are not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as “hydrocracked”. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils, particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils with a low “W” rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times more than good quality mineral fractions.

We use several different grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the “synthetic” which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled “synthetic”. Yes it’s a cruel world, you get what you pay for!

Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called “synthetic”?

Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the USA about ten years ago. Sound reasons (including evidence from a Nobel Prize winning chemist) were disregarded and the final ruling was that certain mineral bases that had undergone extra chemical treatments could be called “synthetic”.

Needless to say, the marketing executives wet their knickers with pure delight! They realised that this meant, and still does, that the critical buzz-word “synthetic” could be printed on a can of cheap oil provided that the contents included a few percent of “hydrocracked” mineral oil, at a cost of quite literally a few pence.

So, the chemistry of “synthetics” is complex and so is the politics!

The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-marketed can with “synthetic” printed on it, fair enough, it will not cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case. But, if you drive a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and maybe do the odd “track day”, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil.

This oil costs more money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply, you always get what you pay for!

Unquote:

 

[Number_Cruncher]

3000 miles!, 5000 miles!, we aren't in the 1960's anymore!

You don't need to change modern oil in modern engines at anything like that frequency.

However, as oil chaning is one of those jobs which falls into the scope of the DIYer, lots of bogus mythology has sprung up around it, with people following nonsensical regimes in the mistaken belief that they are doing some good.

As long as you meet or exceed the oil requirements for your engine, and meet or beat the oil chaning frequency, you'll be OK.

Engine failures which can be directly attributed to lubrication failure are not common - check by searching this forum, you'll find out that other faults far outnumber any engine failures, which in turn outnumber lubrication based engine failures.

 

[flango]

3000 miles!, 5000 miles!, we aren't in the 1960's anymore!

No but the base spec of oils still is

You don't need to change modern oil in modern engines at anything like that frequency.

No you dont but some of the recommended changes are too long, better safe than sorry

However, as oil chaning is one of those jobs which falls into the scope of the DIYer, lots of bogus mythology has sprung up around it, with people following nonsensical regimes in the mistaken belief that they are doing some good.

Agreed but after 30 years in Motorsport and having worked in the oil industry I know exactly what an oil is capable of

As long as you meet or exceed the oil requirements for your engine, and meet or beat the oil chaning frequency, you'll be OK.

Not true I'm afraid (Ask Saab owners)

Engine failures which can be directly attributed to lubrication failure are not common

Maybe not on MB but Mitsubishi, Subaru, Saab, Vauxhall, Ford all have massive problems due to ineffective lubrication of cams and cranks. My brother in law specialises in rebuilding them and this is part of our new venture, this week alone we have a Jag X Type and A Mitsubishi L200 in both with engine failures due to no lube its a common problem trust me. The oil service intervals are simply just too long on certain types of vehicle for certain oils

- check by searching this forum, you'll find out that other faults far outnumber any engine failures, which in turn outnumber lubrication based engine failures.

With 30 years experience in Motorsport and working for various Oil and Chemical Companies that manufacture or provide the additives into oils or synthetics I really do know what I am talking about trust me, most manufacturers take oils to their limits and some well beyond. Also what you have to remember is also the type of fuel you use and type of driving also has an Impact on oil life. Its a complicated picture and if I have just spent £2k+ on an engine rebuild then I am not going to take the risk for the sake of £40 of oil. Change it every 3 months and its still only £160 per year twice a year £80 good value in my book. Its a bit like tyres supposed to be good down to the legal limit of 1.6mm but would you seriously drive on a wet motorway at 70 mph with only 1.6m of rubber? For reference mine get changed at 3mm as thats when the performance drops off.

 

[Number_Cruncher]

Yes, there are some engines which are fussy. VW PD engines spring to mind. MB engines don't spring to mind.

>>due to no lube

No lube is not a failure of the oil!, it's a failure of the owner not checking the oil.

My motor trade experience tells me that 30 years ago, engines were commonly being lifted out of cars for major work. Now, engine jobs are much much rarer, and are much more likely to be born of true neglect rather than a within service interval lubrication failure.

The engine jobs which are much more common are cam belt failures, which again, MB are immune from.

There aren't "massive problems", it's truer to say there are isolated cases of specific engine designs which aren't quite up to it - these weak designs will be overcome. Like the case of the Saab engines you noted, care needs to be taken - but, not 3000 mile changes!, that's certainly a 1960's oil change interval, and almost American in outlook.

 

[Uberwagon]

I was looking after 64 machines in Uganda, 50 odd in Cabinda, now I look after large marine, powerplant medium speed diesel and gas engines.

On all the diesel machines, engine condition was affected by the amount of oil changes the set had. This was on an agricultural diesel and not a particularly modern unit but it was affected.

I agree completely that the chance of a l;ack of regular oil changes being the cause of an engines demise is incredibly slim, it doesn't stop me making sure the engine is in as good a condition as is humanly possible.

I do a full change (oil cooler drained too) on my 500E every 5000 miles, I wont mention the engine condition as I have no benchmark for it to say if it is better or worse, all I know is that i'm giving the engine a better quality of oil throughout my ownership.

Dave!

 

[Satch]

If you look in the handbooks of most cars there will be the bog standard oil change period and then the "severe service" period which is considerably shorter.

Now flogging a vehicle under heavy load can do that but more often it is doing stop/start motoring or short journeys on a regular basis. You can easily be in "severe service" conditions without knowing it.

Let me tell you about a misery that has befallen a couple of Japanese car makers on some of their vehicles, although they are both keeping very silent about it.

Because they sell their cars in many countries including developing markets, the oil specs. cannot be too onerous. Not too easy to source a specific Full Synthetic containing added Uberanium in some parts of the world. So they defaulted to a minimum standard of oil readily available anywhere and 6 month/5k oil changes.

Now in Europe nobody wants to see 6 month/5k oil changes any more, so it got stretched to 12 months/10K and dealers were to send out "advisory" letters to owners every 6 months. A lot of owners thought this was just the dealer trying to gouge them and ignored these because it said very plainly in the handbook 12months/10k. Of course the oil spec. remained constant.

In most cases all was well but a significant number of engines that had been in "severe service" (low miles school run, grinding through traffic as well as towing etc) started turning up with scored bores, knackered main bearings, melted piston crowns and turbo charger bearings shot. Common cause? Oil starvation due to oil breakdown resulting in sludge and coking leading to choking of oil passages and galleries and in some cases blocking the screen on the oil pick up tube.

Result:Warrenty changes of engine out to 5 years/100k miles (but only if you make a fuss.)

If that sounds familiar, that is because it is. MB USA had a similar problem not that long ago but that was down to confusion: some US specs. were at one time very different from the European specs. for an oil being marketed under the same name.

So yes, I too belong to the change at half service interval brigade but were my driving pattern to change to mainly long journeys then with a quality full synthetic would be perfectly happy to stick to the suggested interval. (and I have a PELA oil extractor!)

 

[flango]

Yes, there are some engines which are fussy. VW PD engines spring to mind. MB engines don't spring to mind.

>>due to no lube

No lube is not a failure of the oil!, it's a failure of the owner not checking the oil.

No I'm talking about failure from degradation of the oil and sludge deposits blocking oil galleries, not failures from lack of oil.

My motor trade experience tells me that 30 years ago, engines were commonly being lifted out of cars for major work. Now, engine jobs are much much rarer, and are much more likely to be born of true neglect rather than a within service interval lubrication failure.

Dont agree and this is backed up by the volume that goes through our workshop, My brother in law has been in the game 35 years and does more engines now than he ever did. Failure is common.

The engine jobs which are much more common are cam belt failures, which again, MB are immune from.

Not from what we see, yes we get cam belt failed rebuilds but oil starvation ones are much more common

There aren't "massive problems", it's truer to say there are isolated cases of specific engine designs which aren't quite up to it - these weak designs will be overcome. Like the case of the Saab engines you noted, care needs to be taken - but, not 3000 mile changes!, that's certainly a 1960's oil change interval, and almost American in outlook.

My car only gets used at weekends and then not every weekend so this is a problem for any oil thats why i go for 3K changes.

Just my 2p worth