A car that has intrigued me!

[W1ghty]

I was quoted around 2.5 - 3K£ around 10 years ago

I knew it was big , I just couldn’t remember how big

 

[ChipChop]

VED is based on CO2 emissions, which are harmful to the environment (because CO2 is a greenhouse gas), but it's not harmful to humans who breath it.

ULEZ is based on NOx and Particulate Matter (PM) emissions, that are not harmful to the planet (though in high concentration NOx can harm vegetation), but are very harmful to humans.

Euro 6 stipulated a minimum emission levels for NOx and PM. However, getting Diesel engines to lower emissions to Euro 6 level proved challenging, and required complex after- treatment system (AdBlue) which is one reason why modern Euto 6 Diesel engines have so many issues that can be expensive to fix.

Puzzling how NOx and PM emissions could ever be present in high concerntrations when outside. In open air the gas/ particulates are free to disperse the moment they leave the exhaust pipe, tyre tread or brake pad of a vehicle.

An underground train station platform for example has huge amounts of particulate matter emissions yet city hall and TFL turn a blind eye to this harmful to humans form of pollution. Easier and much more profitable to target the motorist. As ever.

 

[Darrell]

Sadiq Khan's ULEZ levy made TfL nearly £100m in under a year


Sadiq Khan's ULEZ levy made TfL nearly £100m in under a year

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Sadiq Khan's ULEZ levy made TfL nearly £100m in under a year

Sadiq Khan's ULEZ levy made TfL nearly £100m in under a year

Revenue isn't profit, of course.

Implementation of the ULEZ extension was said to cost £200 million - presumably capital cost, and unclear what the annual operating cost is.

Ulez expansion across Greater London will cost £200m

But it is clearly a great tax on trade in London, and a useful addition to increased inflation this year, paid by rich people and businesses to subsidise the public transport system which is running well below its previous utilisation levels.

They say that this is the greatest time for day to day cycling in the UK since the post-war period.

 

[markjay]

Puzzling how NOx and PM emissions could ever be present in high concerntrations when outside. In open air the gas/ particulates are free to disperse the moment they leave the exhaust pipe, tyre tread or brake pad of a vehicle....

My comment regarding the effect of high concentration of NOx gasses was 'for completeness', I.e. if I simply said that NOx gasses (unlike CO2) are "not harmful to the environment" then I am sure someone would have corrected me.... but in practical terms it will be true to say that NOx emissions from vehicles are not harmful to the planet.

Exhaust emissions tend to disperse quickly and the worst effect is therefore on those people who are physically near the roads where the polluting vehicles are travelling. This is why many Councils have recently closed roads near schools to all through-traffic during school hours, as well as blocking some residential areas from through-traffic altogether.

Additionally, reducing the speed limit to 20mph is supposed to reduce exhaust gas emissions as well.

The other benefit of all these measures is the reduction in collisions with pedestrians near schools and in residential areas, as well as on roads limited to 20mph.

 

[markjay]

Revenue isn't profit, of course.

Implementation of the ULEZ extension... it is clearly a great tax on trade in London, and a useful addition to increased inflation this year, paid by rich people and businesses to subsidise the public transport system which is running well below its previous utilisation levels.

Almost all petrol cars built after 2000 are ULEZ compliant (many were Euro 4 well ahead of the 2005 deadline), and also Diesel cars made after 2015.

I would argue that ULEZ is an inconvenience for those who happen to own older Diesel cars, who will have to work out whether they should replace them with petrol cars or just pay the ULEZ charge when they travel into the zone.

But it's not really an issue that increases the gap between poor and rich as such.

 

[Darrell]

Almost all petrol cars built after 2000 are ULEZ compliant (many were Euro 4 well ahead of the 2005 deadline), and also Diesel cars made after 2015.

I would argue that ULEZ is an inconvenience for those who happen to own older Diesel cars, who will have to work out whether they should replace them with petrol cars or just pay the ULEZ charge when they travel into the zone.

But it's not really an issue that increases the gap between poor and rich as such.

I’m after a new (ish) van. Gonna cost.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Almost all petrol cars built after 2000 are ULEZ compliant (many were Euro 4 well ahead of the 2005 deadline), and also Diesel cars made after 2015.

I would argue that ULEZ is an inconvenience for those who happen to own older Diesel cars, who will have to work out whether they should replace them with petrol cars or just pay the ULEZ charge when they travel into the zone.

But it's not really an issue that increases the gap between poor and rich as such.

You’re looking at the issue through wealthy consumer eyes.

I would suggest that most of that ULEZ revenue is coming from commercial traffic and occasional, ie non regular visitors to town. These are not people who can just buy a post 2015 diesel to save that money.

We’re pricing the poor off city roads.

They don’t buy Khan’s rhetoric about the money being spent on buses, trams, the tube and infrastructure.

They see emptier commuter buses and tube trains, and are being forced to cycle rather than pay high prices to commute into London. (Currently £2k a year after tax from the ‘Burbs).

And, of course public transport is still hopeless for getting around the edge, as it’s always been. I've just helped an (affluent) youngster buy a petrol VW Polo to commute from Wandsworth to Stockley Park. The public transport commute is twice the time, dirty, unreliable and unhealthy. She's a very well paid tech graduate, so can afford to run ULEZ spec kit, but she'd rather be in a cheaper 65mpg diesel.



.

 

[Darrell]

We’re deliberately pricing the poor off city roads. And they don’t buy Khans rhetoric about the money being spent on buses, trams, the tube and infrastructure. They see emptier commuter buses and tube trains, and are being forced to cycle rather than pay high prices to commute into London.

.

The next round of ULEZ is going to hit the less well off in a big way.

 

[markjay]

You’re looking at the issue through wealthy consumer eyes.

I would suggest that most of that ULEZ revenue is coming from commercial traffic and occasional, ie non regular visitors to town. These are not people who can just buy a post 2015 diesel to save that money.

We’re pricing the poor off city roads.

They don’t buy Khan’s rhetoric about the money being spent on buses, trams, the tube and infrastructure.

They see emptier commuter buses and tube trains, and are being forced to cycle rather than pay high prices to commute into London. (Currently £2k a year after tax from the ‘Burbs).

And, of course public transport is still hopeless for getting around the edge, as it’s always been. I've just helped an (affluent) youngster buy a petrol VW Polo to commute from Wandsworth to Stockley Park. The public transport commute is twice the time, dirty, unreliable and unhealthy. She's a very well paid tech graduate, so can afford to run ULEZ spec kit, but she'd rather be in a cheaper 65mpg diesel.



.

You may be right, but even so, the issue is limited to tradesmen driving older vans, while for the majority of motorists it will still be - as I suggested - more of an inconvenience rather than an affordability issue.

 

[E55BOF]

Personally, I look on the bright side; I commute to Heathrow, and the CLS350 isn't Euro 6, but the CLS 63 is, so I had to buy it, really. Man maths at its best...

 

[Fastcar155]

Hi , I understand that in Birmingham that 50% of motorist do not pay the Connection Charge when fined.

I think it was reported in the Express and Star

 

[Darrell]

You may be right, but even so, the issue is limited to tradesmen driving older vans, while for the majority of motorists it will still be - as I suggested - more of an inconvenience rather than an affordability issue.

^^ This^^

I’ve got a nice little number doing little roofing jobs in my local area at the weekends and a nice clean 12,13 or 14 plate Transit Connect would be perfect.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

You may be right, but even so, the issue is limited to tradesmen driving older vans, while for the majority of motorists it will still be - as I suggested - more of an inconvenience rather than an affordability issue.

Apologies, I didn't mean to give the impression that I was talking about majority of motorists. Obviously the majority of motorists never even get near London or the regional ULEZ schemes.

I said that the poor who live and work in London were being taxed off London's roads. Poor folk on less than £50k a year who can't afford to pay ULEZ and London parking charges on top of London rents and general cost of living. Food and parcel delivery services which have had to switch to bikes and the like.

Completely understand that only half the cars in the UK were built before 2014.

 

[markjay]

Apologies, I didn't mean to give the impression that I was talking about majority of motorists. Obviously the majority of motorists never even get near London or the regional ULEZ schemes.

I said that the poor who live and work in London were being taxed off London's roads. Poor folk on less than £50k a year who can't afford to pay ULEZ and London parking charges on top of London rents and general cost of living. Food and parcel delivery services which have had to switch to bikes and the like.

Completely understand that only half the cars in the UK were built before 2014.

This is true, and I think that it's actually a bigger issue... London has long become a magnet for people and businesses, wages are higher, but also the costs are higher i.e. housing, driving, etc. The solution to my mind is to de-centralise the UK, hopefully HS2 will help do that, but in any event we must have other 'magnet' hubs across the UK that will draw to them people and business (and not just the much discussed Northern Powerhouse).

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

This is true, and I think that it's actually a bigger issue... London has long become a magnet for people and businesses, wages are higher, but also the costs are higher i.e. housing, driving, etc. The solution to my mind is to de-centralise the UK, hopefully HS2 will help do that, but in any event we must have other 'magnet' hubs across the UK that will draw to them people and business (and not just the much discussed Northern Powerhouse).

If only we could find a Prime Minister who was committed to that kind of decentralisation...

It also needs acknowledging that the big population growth in London is not people moving in from the Provinces, it's folks moving in from abroad, with now 40% of London's population have been born outside the UK. (It's obvious to any Londoner, but folks outside often don't get it.)

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

If only we could find a Prime Minister who was committed to that kind of decentralisation...

Fixed that for you.

 

[Darrell]

It also needs acknowledging that the big population growth in London is not people moving in from the Provinces, it's folks moving in from abroad, with now 40% of London's population have been born outside the UK. (It's obvious to any Londoner, but folks outside often don't get it.)

I mentioned this to a colleague recently and was called a racist.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I mentioned this to a colleague recently and was called a racist.

It’s the best bit of living in London.

I mention it because lots of Brits think it’s all about the Young moving to London. Methinks those days have gone.

Brits move out, but Internationals move in and don’t really want to live anywhere else - for good reason… (tech jobs, specialist jobs, restaurants, schools, communities yada yada)

Regionalisation is tougher than it looks.

 

[JHS]

It’s the best bit of living in London.

I mention it because lots of Brits think it’s all about the Young moving to London. Methinks those days have gone.

Brits move out, but Internationals move in and don’t really want to live anywhere else - for good reason… (tech jobs, specialist jobs, restaurants, schools, communities yada yada)

Regionalisation is tougher than it looks.

We don't eat the dead out here in the provinces, you know.