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A160 - Dirty Dipstick Test

amliddle

amliddle

New Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
19
I am requesting the assistance of all A160 (1998 - 2004) owners: Is your engine dipstick a horrible reddish brown stained colour? Does your oil get unusually dirty unusually quickly?

Please take a look and let me know with a short oneliner response showing model, mileage and state of oil/dipstick.

Thanks!

Alan Liddle
Sydney
 
I think he is talking about the breather problem that I have heard of.
 
Yes, it is related to the breather. And no, whilst I am sure rust may be a problem on some dipsticks, this is not rust that I am referring to. This is a reddish brown varnish-type substance all the way up the dipstick.

I attach some photies.... Here is the sump - see the brown stuff above the oil line...

sump.jpg


Here is the top of the head.....

Camshaftcolour.jpg



So the dipstick looks the same (it is too small to photograph)....

BlackC55, what are your thoughts?

What I am referring to is not a bit of rust but a stain ALL the way down the dipstick into the oily end... (where the horrible black smelly unventilated oil sits!). The reason for my "fixation" on the dipstick is that it is easy for anyone to get at and is a sure-fire indication of the problem I am referring to.

Here's hoping for some responses please....
 
This colouration is not unusual. I have seen it many times on engines that have not been looked after and generally don't get their oil checked, missed services, poor quality oil etc.

I opened up a 111 engine recently (with service history) and it looked the same as yours. Looking at the service book it missed a service.

I have seen the oil sludge up too on 111 engines and cause the tappets to block up and become very noisey.

By no means this is not an unusual problem. A good flush out and a few regular oil changes normally sorts it.
 
Yes... but my whole point is that:

a) My car has not missed a service by a MB garage,
b) When it developed a knock, MB first replaced my poly belt & tensioner for $1900, then
c) took the head off and when they couldn't find the problem said that my block was u/s because it had a 'score' mark in the one cylinder, they quoted me $19,300 to fix it. (bear in mind it is a 1999 car).
d) I eventually towed my car home and fixed it myself.

Look, I don't want to bore you.... The history is in the mercedes club forum. All I can say is that there IS a vent problem and that I have NEVER seen such a dirty engine.

I paid premium bucks to have my car serviced by an "agent" and they cocked up. They... actually they sounded a bit like your last posting; all pompous and aloof after they had sucked out my oil from the dipstick without even looking at it! (if they changed it at all!).

(Now I am getting thoroughly ****** off!). I am afraid that in all the time that I have stripped motors I have never seen an engine as dirty as that!

Why is it that I am getting stonewalled on this???? 3 cars with the same problem? There must be SOME thing in this....

BlackC43 - you seem to swing some clout around here yet I am getting pushed back..... what is this????!

****** off and leaving......
 
The weather is taking a turn for the worst now and quite cold with rain in the air
 
R/T.E49 said:
Hey come on, I'm an Aussie, that hurt.
Just because this turkey threw his toys out of the pram over his old bucket of nails........Take it back!:mad:
Click to expand...

Sorry.

I meant his ancestors specifically. Not yours, of course.
 
amliddle said:
Yes... but my whole point is that:

a) My car has not missed a service by a MB garage,
b) When it developed a knock, MB first replaced my poly belt & tensioner for $1900, then
c) took the head off and when they couldn't find the problem said that my block was u/s because it had a 'score' mark in the one cylinder, they quoted me $19,300 to fix it. (bear in mind it is a 1999 car).
d) I eventually towed my car home and fixed it myself.

Look, I don't want to bore you.... The history is in the mercedes club forum. All I can say is that there IS a vent problem and that I have NEVER seen such a dirty engine.

I paid premium bucks to have my car serviced by an "agent" and they cocked up. They... actually they sounded a bit like your last posting; all pompous and aloof after they had sucked out my oil from the dipstick without even looking at it! (if they changed it at all!).

(Now I am getting thoroughly ****** off!). I am afraid that in all the time that I have stripped motors I have never seen an engine as dirty as that!

Why is it that I am getting stonewalled on this???? 3 cars with the same problem? There must be SOME thing in this....

BlackC43 - you seem to swing some clout around here yet I am getting pushed back..... what is this????!

****** off and leaving......
Click to expand...

I think you may have some anger issues. I gave straight forward advice.

If you don't like it...........Poke it
 
Can someone attach a "sticky" to this thread and title it, "how not to post on a forum".

(just noticed he's moved to the other forum, he hasn't quite exploded over there yet)

Russ
 
Last edited:
rf065 said:
Can someone attach a "sticky" to this thread and title it, "how not to post on a forum".

(just noticed he's moved to the other forum, he hasn't quite exploded over there yet)

Russ
Click to expand...

under statement of the week!
 
To concur with BlackC55 this looks like an oil problem rather than a breather issue.
The oil appears to be overheating and causing black carbon to form. Needs a higher detergency, preferably synthetic oil.

A quick check of a blocked breather is to pull the dipstick or remove the oil cap. If it breathes heavily the breather may be blocked.
Also if the breather is blocked expect lots of oil leaks from seals.
 
Thanks Dieselman & BlackC55,

I hope you can accept my apologies Black55 and the rest of the forum. (The lengths you have to go to to get some attention around here...)

I hope that I am not being lead to believe that MB is unique to this problem? As I say, not even my datsun 1200 after 300,000 miles looked this bad. Also, there is NO indication that the engine has run hot.

MB has religiously charged me over $100 for synthetic Mobil 1 oil at each oil change, yet it is still this colour. I have now stripped 2 A160 engines and have witnessed first hand the perished (inside) hoses. See the photos I posted:
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?p=242624
Both engines had completely blocked inlet manifold breather inlets (I could not find a PCV valve and assume that the A160 uses "fixed" control rather than a valve - please correct me if I am wrong).

I have now reassembled the one engine (using a homemade copper breather pipe). I then had a problem whereby then engine would switch 2 cylinders off on deceleration after getting to revs above 2100rpm. Switching the engine off reset the ECU so that on starting, all 4 cyinders were firing again. This caused me to post the following request:

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=36954

On Thursday I went to MB and plugged it into the computer and it confirmed that cylinders 2 & 3 were the guilty ones. It also indicated that they were firing lean...? How it managed to do that I am not sure (where is the sensor for individual cylinders?).

In church on Friday I had an 'epiphany'.... Damn... it MUST be that my breather hose is too 'efficient' and is letting too much crankcase air into the closest (2&3) cylinders, causing them to missfire as they are too lean - there is no (apparent) PCV valve to close off flow from the sump at high vacuum during deceleration, causing multiple faults in the firing, causing the ECU to shut them down (spark?, fuel injectors?). So I 'pinched' off the breather hose at the (rubber) inlet end and took it for a drive - perfect!

Now what do I do? Does the A160 have a PCV valve hidden in the inlet manifold that is now stuck open? Can I buy any in-line PCV valve and add it to my homemade breather? (at this stage I sure as hell can't rely on MB advice as they totally deny the breather hose problem and would like me to pay $48.00 for a MB one that will perish again - and you need to lower the darned engine to replace it!). At the moment I have a cable tie around the rubber hose to 'fix' the flow to a minimum so that the engine does not 'lean' out.

So you see.... I really am convinced that, whilst the rubber crumbs might not be causing all the discolouration, the rubber crumbs must be blocking the small (1mm dia) inlet orifice, causing the subsequent poor ventilation that then DID cause the discolouration. Yes, Dieselman, the pressure did have to go somewhere, and eventually it blew the end of the perished breather, however, crumbs were still falling into the sump at the lower end of the hose. Also, the latest oil filter was crammed with rubber particles.

Two of the 3 engines I looked at were regularly serviced at the same MB garage; I know that they use Mobil 1 as I inspected the bulk storage they use. I also know that they suck the oil from the dipstick and pump it directly into a waste recycling bulk storage without being presented with the opportunity to inspect it. If I saw the oil in that state I would (at the very least) reduce the oil change interval from 15,000 down to say 5,000km - at the least.

I bought a MB because I thought that I was buying reliability and quality; I then took it to an authorised MB Garage and paid the high bills to have it looked after. All my life I have had what I thought were 'lesser cars' such as Toyota and Mazda, that I have looked after myself.

If this is how a normal MB engine looks like after being serviced well....
If this is how MB normally behaves when confronted with a problem...

then I don't think much of MB.....

I am now faced with a conundrum.... I now know the inside of my MB like the back of my hand, I now know where all the cheap spares are, where I can buy a good used MB engine with <50k on the clock for cheaper than a set of new front disks.... and I don't want to sell the darned thing! Unfortunately I am back where I was in Zimb.... fixing my own damned car!
 
New info has come to light.


- Crankcase ventilation not functioning correctly -

Topic number​
LI01.20-P-011588
Version​
1
Group number​
01.20 Crankcase ventilation, cylinder head cover
Date​
06-24-2004
Validity​
Model series 168 with engine 166
Reason for change​


Complaint The following symptoms can point to a high condensate formation at engine full load breathing:
- Oil escape from valve cover.
- Oil escape from throttle valve actuator.
- Oil escape from oil dipstick.
- A white foam has formed in the oil filler neck.
- Oil level indicator and warning note "Oil level too low" appears in the instrument cluster.
- White smoke emitted from vehicle exhaust.

The following note applies in the case of complaint and reconditioned engines:
Frequent short-distance operation, particularly at temperatures below the freezing point, favors condensate formation; In this case install supply pipe.


Cause Condensate formation can impair engine full load breathing.


Remedy Check the engine full load breathing system, clean the engine full load breathing system.
Before installing the supply pipe, check/correct the engine oil level and if required carry out a pressure loss test; Mechanical wear on engine, as a consequence of oil starvation, not excluded, if necessary order exchange engine.

Install supply pipe.
A) Vehicles with heated windshield washer reservoir (code 875)
1. Up to VIN 443350 fit new heater heat exchanger (see AR83.25-P-1100GC).
2. Up to VIN 450543 install heated throttle valve (see AR03.22-P-1152GF)
(heated throttle valve heater - two tube connectors on the throttle valve, see picture 1).
As of VIN 450544 clean heated throttle valve with compressed air before connecting the supply pipe.
3. Modify the replacement part supply pipe as part 2 is already installed (see picture 2).
4. Pinch off existing hoses in the vehicle using special tool g 000 589 54 37 00 (see picture 3) and open the hose clamp on the supply pipe installed on the vehicle side at a suitable point and disconnect hose (see picture 4).
5. Remove existing hose part 1 from the vehicle and replace by a new hose part 1. Attach hoses to the throttle valve heater and the windshield detergent reservoir with screw-type clamps (part no. A005 997 01 90); Attach the hose to the connecting piece again using the clamp released previously (see picture 5 - hose clamps).
6. Assemble the "mussel" (top bracket and bottom bracket) together with the engine full load breathing hoses and throttle valve heating hose (bottom throttle valve connection). Insert hoses in bottom bracket and mount top bracket and press together. Insert the second hose (top throttle valve connection) in the clip of the top bracket. (see picture 6).
Note:
Route the supply pipe free of chafing and check for unobstructed movement relative to other components.
7. Check coolant level and correct if necessary


B) Vehicles without heated windshield washer reservoir (without code 875).
1. Up to VIN 443350 install new heater heat exchanger (see AR83.25-P-1100GC).
2. Up to VIN 450543 install heated throttle valve (see AR03.22-P-1152GF)
(heated throttle valve heater - two tube connectors on the throttle valve, see picture 1).
As of VIN 450544 clean heated throttle valve with compressed air before connecting the supply pipe.
3. Remove intake module (see AR09.20-P-1400GF).
4. Drain coolant (see AR20.00-P-1142GF).
5. Remove supply pipe installed and replace by a new supply pipe.
6. Assemble the "mussel" (top bracket and bottom bracket) together with the engine full load breathing hoses and throttle valve heating hose (bottom throttle valve connection). Insert hoses in bottom bracket and mount top bracket and press together. Insert the second hose (top throttle valve connection) in the clip of the top bracket. (see picture 6).
7. Assemble in the reverse order.
8. Check coolant level and correct if necessary.

Operation no. of operation texts or standard texts and flat rates:
Op. no.: G 07 1580 0
Op. text: Retrofitting supply pipe for heating engine full load breathing system.
Time: 25 WU
Op. no.: G 07 1581 0
Op. text: Retrofitting supply pipe for heating engine full load breathing system, vehicle with throttle valve heater.
Time: 24 WU
Op. no..: G 07 1582 0
Op. text: Retrofitting supply pipe for heating engine full load breathing system, vehicle with code 875.
Time: 17 WU
Op. no.: G 07 1583 0 Op. text: Retrofitting supply pipe for retrofitting engine full load breathing system, vehicle with throttle valve heater and code 875.
Time: 17 WU


Attachments
Allocation
File
Designation
RemedyBild 3 - Klemme.JPG.jpg Use special tool to pinch off existing hoses(2 pieces).RemedyBild 4 - Schlauchpaket öffnen.jpg Open the supply pipe in the vehicle at the point shown.RemedyBild 5 - Schlauchschellen.jpg Fasten throttle valve heater with clamps.RemedyBild 6 - Muschel.jpg Insert hoses in "bottom bracket" and mount "top bracket" and press together.PartsBild 1 - Drosselklappe_Heizung.JPG.jpg Throttle valve heater (two visible tube connectors) must be present.PartsBild 2 - Schlauchpaket abändern.jpg Modify hose pack and use part 1 for the modification.

Symptoms
Symptom
Power generation / Engine lubrication/oil cooling / Engine lubrication/oil cooling function / Oil level too lowPower generation / Engine lubrication/oil cooling / Engine lubrication/oil cooling function / high oil consumptionPower generation / Engine lubrication/oil cooling / Engine lubrication/oil cooling indicator lamp / Engine oil level indicator lamp / lights upPower generation / Engine lubrication/oil cooling / Engine lubrication/oil cooling leaks / has external oil lossPower generation / exhaust system / Exhaust System Function / blue smoke

Parts
Part number
Designation
Quantity
Note
EPC
Non-EPC
1685060640Upper bracket1X1685060740Lower bracket1X1688300661Heating system heat exchanger1only fit up to VIN J 443350.X1688303096Feed1with code 875 (with heated windshield washer system).X1688303196Return flow1with code 875 (with heated windshield washer system).X1688304996Feed1without code 875 (without windshield washer system).X1688305096Return flow1without code 875 (without windshield washer system).XA0059970190Hose clamp4X

Operation numbers/damage codes
Op. no.
Time
Damage code
Note
Operation text
09123B2

Validities
Vehicle
Engine
Transmission
Major assembly (1)
Major assembly (2)
Major assembly (3)
168.031166.960****168.032166.990****168.033166.960****168.035166.995****168.131166.960****168.132166.990****168.133166.960****168.135166.995****
 
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