Advanced driving course's

[Big Jim]

FWIW (not much) my background includes-
Several years' motor-racing, on tarmac and off-road.
Several "advanced" motoring courses.
Several years' as an instructor, including as an instructor instructor.

Worth a lot more than me mate

Reminds me of the old saying;

Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach. And those that can't do either, examine.

Where were you based mate? We may have crossed paths in another life?

Warm regards

Jim

 

[nickmann]

Hi Big Jim,

I take your point re apples. I would say that the apples in the bucket have been screened somewhat, so they are pretty good apples to start with. Of course there are other occupations that involve trained drivers, and they are good too.

Watch out for doctors though, anything with a green light on it. When asking what significance this light has, one expects the trainee to respond "a doctor on a medical emergency who has no right to priority, not to break the traffic rules, but who should be afforded every assistance in his progress." The REAL answer would be closer to "a testosterone-fuelled roller-coaster driver whose exitement in the trouser department is rendering him unabe to steer." Sorry for the generalisation it applies only to the ones I know personally, and apologies to roller-coaster drivers.

I started with hillclimbing and beach-racing (luvly big v8s and straight 6s, moved to karting (national 100s), then a crash retired me. Did a few advanced courses, then did class 1 (privately), got into CBT training, did the DSA instructors course, then more fun stuff. Based in CI, done training there, and South of England and North of France, Switzerland (Alps rock!)

 

[Big Jim]

Watch out for doctors though, anything with a green light on it. When asking what significance this light has, one expects the trainee to respond "a doctor on a medical emergency who has no right to priority, not to break the traffic rules, but who should be afforded every assistance in his progress." The REAL answer would be closer to "a testosterone-fuelled roller-coaster driver whose exitement in the trouser department is rendering him unabe to steer." Sorry for the generalisation it applies only to the ones I know personally, and apologies to roller-coaster drivers.

Eeeek!!! I guess the same applies to the people that deliver blood? I think they get the blue light course?

 

[glojo]

Highest calibre from within the Police force only.

I understand what your 'tactfully' trying to say and agree to a degree!

Don't forget the reason folks might want to join will also influence those that go into a traffic department.

I will also make another generalisation and say that some (was going to say most, but that would be too much) Some join a traffic department to actually make use of a high speed vehicle and go out to actually catch criminals. Others sadly take great enjoyment in bullying..... drivers. "Your exceeding the speed limit by 5mph, that's an offence, and you sunshine are nicked" It will not matter that you were taking your pregnant wife to hospital, you broke a law and your booked. I sometimes wonder how they drive their own cars and this question has often been answered on this forum by officers stating how they enjoy spinning the wheels of their cars when pulling away from traffic lights etc etc.

There are good and bad drivers everywhere, traffic officers are not generally fast drivers, they are usually safe drivers when responding to emergencies. They should drive to a system, which will always be right!!! This system was wrote by Nelson's secretary just after the Battle of the Nile and shortly before Trafalger, which as we know was way, way before the RAF was even a pipe dream??? Police driving techiques are badly in need of updating, but whilst instructors are 'blinkered' by their bible, nothing will change.

Having had my little rant I still have the utmost respect for our boys and girls in blue and thank them for volunteering for a thankless job!!! I would just like to see the word 'discretion' applied more often when dealing with minor traffic violations.

Oh and the reporting of EVERYONE that either parks outside a school or breaks the speed limit during active school periods! (how often do you see a traffic car patrolling outside our schools?) I do not consider this last paragraph being hypocritical, it is something that should be mandatory. If a traffic car is not commited at the start and end of a school day thhat is where they should be.

John

 

[glojo]

Eeeek!!! I guess the same applies to the people that deliver blood? I think they get the blue light course?

Are you hinting that blood that is urgently required for a life saving operation should not be treated as an emegency situation.

The driver that was involved in a contraversial court case was indeed a very experienced ambulance driver trained to the highest ambulance level.

Are we jealous of these people being allowed to exceed speed limits?

I agree with the post that suggests we all think we are good drivers and just because we can go round a race circuit at high speed means very little (was going to say toodly spit, but thought better of it) in the real world of motoring

John.

 

[Big Jim]

Are you hinting that blood that is urgently required for a life saving operation should not be treated as an emegency situation.

Guess you didn't see the use of my '?' at the end of the statements then. This generally refers to a question. One normally asks a question when you don't know the answer.

I was just wondering if 'Blood' drivers were given proper training.

I didn't make any assumptions about blood needing to get somewhere quickly, in the same way no one questioned that police need to speed. We are talking about the levels of training required and indeed, given.

On the same note, but a different direction, remember they trained a monkey to go to space, but does that make the monkey an astronaught?! In the same way you can teach a Police Officer to go fast as safely as possible, it doesn't make them a safe driver.

Look at how many people have a Private Pilots' License - does that make them a good pilot? No. The next level up in civilian terms is the Commercial Pilot's License, this trains and tests them to drive transport aircraft, but it still doesn't make them good pilots.

End of dit.

 

[Big Jim]

Are we jealous of these people being allowed to exceed speed limits?

I'm too scared to go fast on our roads for two reasons. Losing my license or dying in a crash when i lose control of my car.

If I want to go fast I go to the track - but I'll only drive solo laps, and in someone elses car

If I'm in a rush to get somewhere on a public road, I phone my destination and say I'm going to be late - honest! :bannana: I never go over 65mph, especially in a built up area LOL.

Take care all,

Jim

 

[glojo]

On the same note, but a different direction, remember they trained a monkey to go to space, but does that make the monkey an astronaught?! In the same way you can teach a Police Officer to go fast as safely as possible, it doesn't make them a safe driver.

Hi Jim,
Hopefully you noticed the """Are you hinting that blood""" I certainly never implied you actually said anything, likewise it is quite possible that some pool drivers might be required to make routine deliveries.

Police drivers are NOT taught to drive as fast as possible (hopefully) They are taught to make progress safely.

Only an idjut would drive as fast as possible, plus there life expectancy would be very short lived. Forward observation and anticipation is a major, major componant of GOOD driving (not fast driving)

As an advanced motorcycle instructor I never saw the need for having a one million 'cc' one thousand horse power flying machine. I usually had a 500cc bike and I would teach my young students on their large steeds how to make progress in a methodical structured fashion. They came onto the course thinking the were the fastest thing on two wheels, but most, if not all completed the course, with a huge satisfied grin of accomplishment, acheivement and hopefully street knowledge?

I had the priviledge of working alongside a Police advanced motorcycle instructor and watching him stand up on the saddle of his Police bike was a sight that earnt him respect big time. Again we never taught fast riding, we taught safe riding, defensive riding and then..... increased the riders momentum (speed) as we taught them how to make safe progress.

There is nothing more satisfying than a small group of bikers on an advanced ride.

Happy, happy days.
John

 

[BonzoDog]

Well said GloJo and nickmann

Here, here Glojo and nickmann.
My golden rule is keep your distance and if those in front and behind are tailgating make sure you have enough stopping distance for them too.
Another smooth driving tip from years ago is to imagine that you are driving with the old Queen Mum in the back.

 

[Big Jim]

Hi Jim,
Police drivers are NOT taught to drive as fast as possible (hopefully) They are taught to make progress safely.

My Gran makes Progress Safely

Only an idjut would drive as fast as possible, plus there life expectancy would be very short lived. Forward observation and anticipation is a major, major componant of GOOD driving (not fast driving)

Surely you mean 'fast driving' with 'forward observation and anticipation'. The two subsets go hand in hand, otherwise they'd never catch anyone . Taking it to it's extremes, my Gran doing 30mph might be safer than a Policeman travelling with his lights on to catch a speeding motorist doing 50mph. They have to use the 'forward observation and anticipation' and risk assess whether it is safe to proceed or call off the pursuit.

As an advanced motorcycle instructor I never saw the need for having a one million 'cc' one thousand horse power flying machine. I usually had a 500cc bike and I would teach my young students on their large steeds how to make progress in a methodical structured fashion. They came onto the course thinking the were the fastest thing on two wheels, but most, if not all completed the course, with a huge satisfied grin of accomplishment, acheivement and hopefully street knowledge?

I had the priviledge of working alongside a Police advanced motorcycle instructor and watching him stand up on the saddle of his Police bike was a sight that earnt him respect big time.

Was he doing his elephant impression at the same time though? Now that would be impressive - or not perhaps?

A very useful trick none the less

Again we never taught fast riding, we taught safe riding, defensive riding and then..... increased the riders momentum (speed) as we taught them how to make safe progress.

Excellent the two skills together. Why the need to go fast at all though?

There is nothing more satisfying than a small group of bikers on an advanced ride.

I disagree, there is nothing more satisfying than lying in bed with two young ladies the morning after the main event

Happy, happier days.
Jim

 

[Big Jim]

Here, here Glojo and nickmann.
My golden rule is keep your distance and if those in front and behind are tailgating make sure you have enough stopping distance for them too.
Another smooth driving tip from years ago is to imagine that you are driving with the old Queen Mum in the back.

Good point Bonzo, but how do you stop people nipping in and taking up your valuable stopping distance. How annoying is that!

I always keep a .45 in the car for just such occasions

 

[glojo]

Surely you mean 'fast driving' with 'forward observation and anticipation'. The two subsets go hand in hand, otherwise they'd never catch anyone .

It is very easy to dissect each others words and find fault, which has never been my style.

I mean........... making progress.

You can twist that into whatever meaning you want. I stand by my analogy of Toad of Toad Hall. That to me is a fast driver without ANY advanced driving skills!!

On average, making progress safely will get you to your destination much quicker than a fast driver. Most importantly though you will be far more relaxed and less stressed. There will always be exceptions and perhaps you might fall into that category? (I am NOT saying that you do)

Incidentally getting too close to the car in front restricts forward observation, but of course you know that?

John

 

[Big Jim]

It is very easy to dissect each others words and find fault, which has never been my style.

I mean........... making progress.

You can twist that into whatever meaning you want. I stand by my analogy of Toad of Toad Hall. That to me is a fast driver without ANY advanced driving skills!!

On average, making progress safely will get you to your destination much quicker than a fast driver. Most importantly though you will be far more relaxed and less stressed. There will always be exceptions and perhaps you might fall into that category? (I am NOT saying that you do)

Incidentally getting too close to the car in front restricts forward observation, but of course you know that?

John

Sorry mate - didn't mean to cause any offence.

Easy to read between the lines and misinterpret things. I guess we're all guilty of that.

I think we are both saying the same things, but coming at it from different angles.

Happy with your Toad analogy.

Respect,

Jim

 

[glojo]

Sorry mate - didn't mean to cause any offence.

Respect,

Jim

touché

Nice speaking to you,

Have a nice one,
John

 

[nickmann]

Here, here Glojo and nickmann.
My golden rule is keep your distance and if those in front and behind are tailgating make sure you have enough stopping distance for them too.
Another smooth driving tip from years ago is to imagine that you are driving with the old Queen Mum in the back.

Agreed. One of my ways of putting a message across was "fridge theory". You need to be able to stop before the fridge that is lying in the road just round the next bend. (only works on a double-track road though).

 

[BonzoDog]

Big Jim- One has to be a saint

Good point Bonzo, but how do you stop people nipping in and taking up your valuable stopping distance. How annoying is that!

I always keep a .45 in the car for just such occasions

Happens all the time and I am not a saint. It worked years ago when I had a white Rover.

John Whitmore in last Saturday's Telegraph had a thought provoking artzrticle on the topic of road safety.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...S&grid=&xml=/motoring/2005/12/03/mfwhit03.xml

 

[glojo]

Happens all the time and I am not a saint. It worked years ago when I had a white Rover.

John Whitmore in last Saturday's Telegraph had a thought provoking artzrticle on the topic of road safety.

A very interesting article, but sadly I feel it is preaching to the converted. Driving is sometimes a very 'macho' thing, and the 'know it all types' will think they don't need any further tuition, or they know more than the instructor.

Just read some threads on this forum where the owner of say a thirteen litre car actually gets overtaken by a lesser powered vehicle... They instantly have to prove their car is faster.... on a busy public road!!! Absolutely mind boggling, but if you point it out to them, then they instantly come out with a thousand excuses of why it was 'safe'.

Regarding the...

"""but how do you stop people nipping in and taking up your valuable stopping distance. How annoying is that!"""

I HATE sounding holier than thou, but the answer is, "It's not annoying"

Yes you will always get some idiot force there way in, but so what? Who cares? Just have a quiet giggle and get on with life.

Of course the car length gap adage will not apply in very slow moving traffic, but my advice is always, always leave enough room between yourself and the car in front to allow you to pass if the vehicle in front stops for whatever reason. We normally say that you want to be able to see the rear bumper or slightly below it. (This advice only applies when moving at very slow speeds, definitely less than 100mph )

Investing in an advanced driving course for the 'other half' is always an excellent gift that might be considered at this time of year.

Regards,
John

 

[BonzoDog]

Glojo - you are right

You have me convinced about the IAM for both of us.

 

[Big Jim]

but the answer is, "It's not annoying"

'The answer' for you maybe.....but me, I just close up the gap, carefully open my window, and squirt my water pistol at them, sometimes I've even been known to wave my fist, or worse, give them a very nasty look. Sometimes, I am ashamed to say, I feel the urge to use my horn. Although to date I've manage to avoid the temptation. Only time will tell if I can hold out

Just have a quiet giggle and get on with life

Very wise words, but didn't you say getting too close to the car in front restricts forward vision? Oh well looks like I'll have to try and curb my fustrations and hang up my water pistols for use in the shopping market. Your philosphy obviously works for you and I will do my utmost to mirror your thoughts so that I too can be calm and relaxed when I arrive home. My Wife is fed up with all the beatings I give her because I was cut up on the motorway.

By the way, I completely agree with your comments about Police patrol vehicles outside schools. I guess they must all be busy doing other stuff

 

[saorbust]

You have me convinced about the IAM for both of us.

Let me know if you want any tips - I've been a member for years.

Best thing I ever did - and it really taught me that I'm a crap driver aspiring to be a better one - at all times. By which I mean I probably make a mistake, bad move, slip up, etc at least once a mile and probably more. But now I concentrate harder, look further ahead, use the mirrors more, and drive with a view of safety and progress not speed...