Advice needed 1980 380E

[Kerabo]

Appoligies as I have asked about this before but now have seen it and know a little more.

This beautiful old car that belongs to a mate will not start.
It ran 18 months ago. All it will do is fire and run for a few seconds each time you turn the key to start it. When I looked at it today it would not start at all.
It has a fuel injection system that is completely new to me.
The thing that seems strange to me is when cranking it supplies fuel but not when the key is in and not cranking ?
Also he says it’s an electric pump but it pulses like there is a lift pump on the engine.
He has fitted a new electric pump in the tank but he is not a mechanic so is it a pump or for a gauge?,
If he tips a small amount of fuel into the intake it will fire and run on it and then stop.

So on this mechanical injection is there anywhere to bleed the system or what checks can I do please ?
There is fuel up to the large pipe towards the rear but nothing at the forward large pipe? Is this a return ?

Any help or ideas please

 

[Bellow]

Might help.

 

[Kerabo]

Might help.

Thank you

 

[Kerabo]

I have borrowed a Haynes Manual.
This system looks quiet complicated. Seems only pumping when the engine is turning is correct.

I was expecting to see plungers like a Diesel pump but from what I can see it’s not like that.

Thanks Ken

 

[Bellow]

I have borrowed a Haynes Manual.
This system looks quiet complicated. Seems only pumping when the engine is turning is correct.

I had the quickest of squizzes through the manual and the pump is such that pulsating delivery would be normal. I'd expect the pump to prime, run during cranking - but not without the engine running. Safety feature for accident scenario where engine quits but key is still hot.

I was expecting to see plungers like a Diesel pump but from what I can see it’s not like that.

That's the older Kugelfischer system you're thinking of. K Jetronic is a 'metering' system whereby the quantity of fuel (delivered constantly) is varied in accordance with how far the metering plate moves with incoming airflow.
I've no experience of the K Jetronic system but some here have. A specialist would be an asset but, if you study the manual and carefully dissemble where you think there may be a blockage you might just cure it.

 

[Kerabo]

I had the quickest of squizzes through the manual and the pump is such that pulsating delivery would be normal. I'd expect the pump to prime, run during cranking - but not without the engine running. Safety feature for accident scenario where engine quits but key is still hot.

That's the older Kugelfischer system you're thinking of. K Jetronic is a 'metering' system whereby the quantity of fuel (delivered constantly) is varied in accordance with how far the metering plate moves with incoming airflow.
I've no experience of the K Jetronic system but some here have. A specialist would be an asset but, if you study the manual and carefully dissemble where you think there may be a blockage you might just cure it.

Thank you.

I have to tread carefully with this and unless it’s something simple maybe a specialist would be best.,

Most local garages are shying away from it.

Thanks Ken

 

[Kerabo]

I had the quickest of squizzes through the manual and the pump is such that pulsating delivery would be normal. I'd expect the pump to prime, run during cranking - but not without the engine running. Safety feature for accident scenario where engine quits but key is still hot.

That's the older Kugelfischer system you're thinking of. K Jetronic is a 'metering' system whereby the quantity of fuel (delivered constantly) is varied in accordance with how far the metering plate moves with incoming airflow.
I've no experience of the K Jetronic system but some here have. A specialist would be an asset but, if you study the manual and carefully dissemble where you think there may be a blockage you might just cure it.

I guess this was before the days of the kill switch in an accident so as you say only pumping with the engine running would make it safe.

Thanks

 

[Bellow]

I guess this was before the days of the kill switch in an accident so as you say only pumping with the engine running would make it safe.

Thanks

A necessity when electric pumps for injection systems replaced engine driven pumps.

 

[Bellow]

Thank you.

I have to tread carefully with this and unless it’s something simple maybe a specialist would be best.,

Most local garages are shying away from it.

Thanks Ken

First off, hang around for a bit. There will likely be someone more knowledgeable post with advice and/or a recommendation for a specialist. It is an older technology so yes, very little experience or knowledge of it in most garages.
The problem is in all probability linked to having sat for 18 months. Either a blockage,, a seal failure, or perhaps a stuck component is what I'd guess.
The fuel being tipped in to get to fire - from its own tank or fresh? If it will only fire on fresh fuel, its own fuel may be stale. If however, it can fire (but not continue running) on its own fuel then assume it to be fine.

 

[sennasurgeon]

Fuel pump relay ?

 

[Kerabo]

First off, hang around for a bit. There will likely be someone more knowledgeable post with advice and/or a recommendation for a specialist. It is an older technology so yes, very little experience or knowledge of it in most garages.
The problem is in all probability linked to having sat for 18 months. Either a blockage,, a seal failure, or perhaps a stuck component is what I'd guess.
The fuel being tipped in to get to fire - from its own tank or fresh? If it will only fire on fresh fuel, its own fuel may be stale. If however, it can fire (but not continue running) on its own fuel then assume it to be fine.

Thank you

 

[Kerabo]

Fuel pump relay ?

Fuel pump spears to be working Thanks

 

[Kerabo]

Fuel pump relay ?

Possible but where is it ?
Thanks

 

[Kerabo]

Still trying to make this run.
I have the diagram but have problems knowing where the items to test are.
The only relay I can find under the bonnet don’t appear to be connected to the injection system.
So every time you turn the key to start it runs but only a few seconds.
I understand that whilst cranking it overrides all safety circuits to run and then when the engine starts the oil pressure switch makes it complete its circuit snd run?
The thing is where are these items.
I have underlined most of the Circuit but can anyone give pictures or info as to where these are.
Our local specialist won’t collect the car and we can’t drive it.
Any ideas please

 

[Bellow]

I understand that whilst cranking it overrides all safety circuits to run and then when the engine starts the oil pressure switch makes it complete its circuit snd run?
The thing is where are these items.

Try disconnecting the oil pressure switch and connecting the terminals on the wires to each other. If it runs then the oil pressure switch is likely culprit.
I don't know the exact location of it but it can likely be found by starting at the oil filter and looking at where the oil gallery leads from there. It will be screwed into either the block or head. If uncertain, removing it should show oil. This mightn't be as straightforward if the filter is mounted high up (accessed from above, not below) but should still be possible.
BTW, GM use - or used - the oil pressure switch on SBCs not to complete the fuel pump circuit but to back it up in the event of relay failure. That it could be used as a primary electrical feed is plausible.

 

[Kerabo]

Try disconnecting the oil pressure switch and connecting the terminals on the wires to each other. If it runs then the oil pressure switch is likely culprit.
I don't know the exact location of it but it can likely be found by starting at the oil filter and looking at where the oil gallery leads from there. It will be screwed into either the block or head. If uncertain, removing it should show oil. This mightn't be as straightforward if the filter is mounted high up (accessed from above, not below) but should still be possible.
BTW, GM use - or used - the oil pressure switch on SBCs not to complete the fuel pump circuit but to back it up in the event of relay failure. That it could be used as a primary electrical feed is plausible.

Thank you
Had a search but couldn’t locate anything.
I found these are some YouTube video to watch so see if that helps

 

[optimusprime]

Check bettery is clamped up tight .. along with fuses and earth points

 

[Kerabo]

Check bettery is clamped up tight .. along with fuses and earth points

Specialist on YouTube says injectors can do this start and stop.
Sounds a bit unlikely but we see.
I would like to get some carburettor cleaner into it but not easy.
Thanks

 

[optimusprime]

Put it in the fuel tank ...i used RED X

 

[Kerabo]

Put it in the fuel tank ...i used RED X

Thanks for the reply.

I was thinking carb cleaner was a spray ?
If I could put it in the tank it would make it easy.