Advice Please. Young Ringway soon to start driving.

[A140driver]

Well, I've been driving for 18 months or so now without any incidents as a named driver on one of my parents' cars as I couldn't afford to buy and insure a car of my own at the time. This means that I often don't have access to a car during the week while my parents are at work and if I need a car for something I need to arrange to borrow it in advance, so it certainly isn't a case of 'fronting'. Having spent a weekends, evenings and summers working between uni, I am now able to afford to buy and insure a car in my own name. Unlike most people my age I'm not after a car just for transport, I want a car as a hobby, hence why I'm looking at a classic car, ideally a Rover P6 2000SC or a Triumph 2000, both of which are reasonably cheap to insure, relatively speaking, on a limited mileage policy, TPFT and provided I'm a member of an owners' club. So, it wouldn't be the same as someone my age buying a Corsa, Clio, Saxo or equivalent and thrashing it, instead whatever I buy will be cherished.

 

[EDZ649]

I get off talking like that because it is FACT.

NOT ONE PERSON cared about anything but their own child's safety, NOT ONE PERSON expressed any concern about innocent third parties injured, maimed or killed by their children due to lack of driving skill and experience.

When pulled up on this SHEER HYPOCRISY, you go and tell me to polish my halo!!!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I'm sure some of the points you mention are valid, just don't start making things personal, there's been enough of that nonsense on here lately.....

 

[iscaboy]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I'm sure some of the points you mention are valid, just don't start making things personal, there's been enough of that nonsense on here lately.....

Dude, "not one person" is about as general a statement as it is possible to make.

"Go and polish your halo" is however quite personal, individual and directed.

Look in the mirror much?

 

[LTD]

NOT ONE OF YOU PEOPLE has talked about your responsibility as parents to other road users and pedestrians for the carnage your kids are likely to produce.

Eh ?

Wind your neck in. We all were asked about insurance in the OP. Not the moral crusade.

I gave my daughter my 1.4 VW Golf so she didn't buy an unreliable shed. A 2004 car that was owned by me from new. If that's not responsible, I don't know what.

As a parent, I have absolutely no responsibility for the actions of my 19yo daughter when she is driving. It's her responsibility. Safety comes from training.

 

[Merco]

"Stress the fact that it is a crap car, if he sticks it into a lamp post at 30 mph he will maybe lose his legs, get him good and scared.

You are not doing him any favours sticking him in a decent car and picking up the bills and programming him with expectations way beyond his station and false assumptions about invulnerability.

NOT ONE OF YOU PEOPLE has talked about your responsibility as parents to other road users and pedestrians for the carnage your kids are likely to produce.

A reliant robin or rialto is affordable, fixable, economical, within his means, and exactly the kind of vehicle that won't get him into street racing and A&E.

If he doesn't want one, then HE DOES NOT WANT TRANSPORT from A to B, he wants a status symbol, without earning it himself.
[/QUOTE]"




Sure, there is a point in here somewhere which is valid but I don't agree with 'getting him good and scared.' You don't have to operate on the assumption that the child is going to deliberately attempt to do something awfula nd turn into a tearway and I don't believe that you should instil a 'world is a fearful place' mentality in young people. But I do agree with some of the above points except that my take is - you shouldbe honest with your kids, be open about what your concerns are and sit down and sicuss with them which car they want, what they want to use it for and how this impacts financially. You can then decide based on the good advice of people on this forum, which is the best route to go down for purposes of insurance. I'm sure that this colaborative approach is one which will be welcomed by any child - it shows that their parent is trying to do their best and that this sense of entitlement is not a reasonable way to view the world. It also lets everyone know where they stand.

For my money - it's far better to have this discussion with the figures in front which will no doubt indicate that having your son as the main driver with yourself as a named driver is the most economical way to manage it but with the full facts in front of him, your son will know what the financial sacrifice is and also what the principleconsiderations are. A far better lesson learned for all than casting the fear of God into him! I dunno!

Don't know why people are getting their knickers in a twist here - it's a simple insurance question anyway, not a parenting strategy! It's all (me included!) getting way off point here. Let's stick to the question asked, eh?

Child as policy holder, parents named driver(s) - provided they have reasonable driving histories themselves. Leave the parenting classes to everyone to sort out for themselves.

 

[iscaboy]

Sure, there is a point in here somewhere which is valid but I don't agree with 'getting him good and scared.' You don't have to operate on the assumption that the child is going to deliberately attempt to do something awfula nd turn into a tearway and I don't believe that you should instil a 'world is a fearful place' mentality in young people.

The facts are that it is an integral part of youth that you are invulnerable, immortal, and skilled at everything.

No kid sets out deliberately to have an awful crash.

They have awful crashes because they lack skill, lack experience, lack knowledge and most of all lack a sense of self preservation.

Buying them a new NCAP5+ car doesn't address ANY of these issues, arguably, it exacerbates many of them.

 

[Merco]

Sure - but the stats show 1 in 5 new drivers have a crash in the first 6 months. That means 80% don't. I guess I just come from a position where I believe in educating and collaborating rather than being fearful and feared. It worked for me!

Anyway - as I said in my previous post, it's somewhat off topic really so I'll defer to those on the forum such as antoniasdad who know best about the insurance issue...

 

[A1GSS]

... those on the forum such as antoniasdad who know best about the insurance issue...

For the record, as previously stated I do indeed work for a large insurer, but I don't claim to be an expert on the topic. Others may well be in a better place to comment. I'm representing my own opinion, not a professional view!

Thanks though.

 

[Merco]

Fair enough - apologies for the misrepresentation!

 

[A1GSS]

No problem! Just didn't want to give the wrong impression ...

 

[renault12ts]

The facts are that it is an integral part of youth that you are invulnerable, immortal, and skilled at everything.

No kid sets out deliberately to have an awful crash.

They have awful crashes because they lack skill, lack experience, lack knowledge and most of all lack a sense of self preservation.

Buying them a new NCAP5+ car doesn't address ANY of these issues, arguably, it exacerbates many of them.

Why so agitated? Things are getting better all the time. In NI the road death fatalities are running not only at the lowest ever...but are less than half of what they were to the same period last year and that was a good year. Better cars, roads and education resulted in these figures, not the reduction in accidents at the 4 fixed sites. In 1974 372 people died on the roads of NI, 2 years ago it was 106 this year it will probably be about 50-60...when records began in 1934 it was 117.

If you apply the statistics to the figures, then if the road death per cars on the road had continued then to-day, with 10 times the cars on the roads as was the case in 1974, 3720 pa would die. The reductions are not only very good they are absolutely amazing.

 

[rees_A]

For info, my son bought his car and I taught him to drive, he probably had 2000 miles under his belt with me telling him what to do/not to do BEFORE he passed his test. I believe he has enough skills and experience to not drive too fast/recklessly. I think part of passing a test should include a certain amount of miles should be done a bit like a pilot. At least it should stop 17 yo who do a 1 week course and pass from being let loose with no road sense...

 

[flango]

The facts are that it is an integral part of youth that you are invulnerable, immortal, and skilled at everything.

No kid sets out deliberately to have an awful crash.

They have awful crashes because they lack skill, lack experience, lack knowledge and most of all lack a sense of self preservation.

Buying them a new NCAP5+ car doesn't address ANY of these issues, arguably, it exacerbates many of them.

Thats far too a generalistic view IMHO

I agree with your first sentance on youth

But your second one yes some kids do just that go out to deliberately cause a crash with other road users, ask some of the serving traffic officers on here if you don't believe me, I even have in car video of it happening that I use in driver training, kids nicking cars with the sole intent of crashing into another vehicle stationary or moving

Some have crashes because of lack of skill and knowledge, but not all, Jensen Button crashed his road car age 18, would you say he did not have the skill or experience?

NCAP is just a load of tosh dreamt up by desk jockeys and does not simulate real world crashes, take the figurs with a pinch of salt.

Renault 21TS makes an excellent point , Road deaths in NI are at an all time low, Why? Education you want to see some of their hard hitting TV adverts they pull no punches whatsoever, same with the adverts in the press, education not regulation is the key.

I would lower the learner driver age to 15 as they do in some US states, then when they pass the test restrict the number of teenagers in the car, it's peer pressure that causes accidents, a young driver on there own or with an older adult is and has been proven to be very safe, remove the danger reduce the accidents, Mainland UK should folow the excellent exmple in NI. If not then its time to put up or shut up but stop tarring all the young with the same brush, sure there is a problem but address the problem area not everyone under a certain age judge it on ability and intelligence not statistics, which we all know can be spun anyway you want to tell whichever story you want, as in the earlier post " 1 in 5 young people have an accident in the first six months" take the positive from that , it means that 80% don't and of the 20% that do how many have been blamed incorrectly just because of their age?

I'll tell you one thing we look after a 350 bhp Subaru Impreza for a 18 year old customer and I would rather get in that car with him, than in a car with one of my elderly relatives who trundles along blindly missing virtually every hazard and blaming the young for everything

 

[Sonny Burnett]

These are the worst things you can do, in no particular order.

1/ "Front" his insurance and give him a criminal record and an endorsed licence.

2/ Buy him a vehicle.

3/ Pay for his insurance.

4/ Assume that the modern driving test is worth more than 2p when it comes to safety or driving skill.

These are the best things you can do, in no particular order.

1/ give him driving experience while sat next to him.

2/ give him experience of skid pan, off road, and heavy goods and other vehicle driving.

3/ give him experience of the mechanical aspects of a vehicle, the physics of motion, etc.

4/ help him to select, buy and insure a vehicle that he can actually afford, where "help him" = a personal loan with fixed repayments and confiscation of the vehicle if he misses a payment.

5/ play the cop, every time he does something illegal, fine him, real cash money (put it in a pot towards his first decent car if you like) while pointing out he is lucky it isn't points on his licence and increased insurance premiums, "it's not fair dad" doesn't work on a copper who just pulled you for crossing unbroken white lines...

A WORKING 17 year old kid can just about afford to buy and run a crap car legally and safely, plus maybe 100 miles worth of fuel a week, plus some basic clothes, and £10 a week to mum for food, that's it.

Stress the fact that it is a crap car, if he sticks it into a lamp post at 30 mph he will maybe lose his legs, get him good and scared.

You are not doing him any favours sticking him in a decent car and picking up the bills and programming him with expectations way beyond his station and false assumptions about invulnerability.

NOT ONE OF YOU PEOPLE has talked about your responsibility as parents to other road users and pedestrians for the carnage your kids are likely to produce.

A reliant robin or rialto is affordable, fixable, economical, within his means, and exactly the kind of vehicle that won't get him into street racing and A&E.

If he doesn't want one, then HE DOES NOT WANT TRANSPORT from A to B, he wants a status symbol, without earning it himself.

your talking like a pensioner, my grandad has more stones that you.
every one fronts... who wants there kid in a KA or reliant robin. its not how HE drives, you can scare your kid into "loosing legs" but how are you going to scare the ML430 Driver that hits him head on while hes in a reliant, i think you need to wake up and smell what your shovelling

and what parent takes money of their kid. you sound like you should of been a cop, they are devoid of personality as well.

it dont take much to keep a 202 on the road, its next to nothing probably the same as a **** escort. i did it at 17, i had money left over for rent, a set of AMGs, and a trip to LA.

i agree with you about the modern driving test is a load of ********, even on a auto test they make you do a hill start hah the whole thing is a joke.

 

[Merco]

Is it me or is this getting a bit silly now?

 

[flango]

Is it me or is this getting a bit silly now?

Whats silly about road safety? If this thread makes just one more person think about the consequence of their actions then it's done its job

 

[Merco]

Whats silly about road safety? If this thread makes just one more person think about the consequence of their actions then it's done its job

Sure - not minimising the road safety, just rueing the personal nature of some of the comments in some of the posts. Fully agree with the road safety aspect as any right minded person would. Just seems like some folk get a little carried away sometimes! No question that road safety and a useful discussion about how best to impart sensible driving attitudes to the young-uns is a useful thread, even though the original question was one about insurance!

 

[pipmk]

your talking like a pensioner, my grandad has more stones that you.
every one fronts... who wants there kid in a KA or reliant robin. its not how HE drives, you can scare your kid into "loosing legs" but how are you going to scare the ML430 Driver that hits him head on while hes in a reliant, i think you need to wake up and smell what your shovelling

and what parent takes money of their kid. you sound like you should of been a cop, they are devoid of personality as well.

it dont take much to keep a 202 on the road, its next to nothing probably the same as a **** escort. i did it at 17, i had money left over for rent, a set of AMGs, and a trip to LA.

i agree with you about the modern driving test is a load of ********, even on a auto test they make you do a hill start hah the whole thing is a joke.

What a very poorly written and abusive post. if I had a £ for every criminal who said to me "Everyone does it" I'd be a very rich man. Do you like their company?
PS I hope your grandad got his "stones" removed, they can be very painful, almost as unpleasant as your post.

 

[Merco]

What a very poorly written and abusive post. if I had a £ for every criminal who said to me "Everyone does it" I'd be a very rich man. Do you like their company?
PS I hope your grandad got his "stones" removed, they can be very painful, almost as unpleasant as your post.

Here Here!

 

[bennesspipers]

Hmm ,sits quietly & ponders !