And they continue to deny any responsibility

[Deleted member 65149]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38529928

"Here he goes again". Yes, it's because I'm concerned about what NOx is doing to my children's health and my grandchildren's health. That's NOx from diesel cars. It's not the pollutants from lorries and busses that are the problem, it's diesel cars. I can understand why diesel car owners don't want to and/or can't afford to immediately change to cars that don't pump out the high levels of NOx. I can even understand why they become defensive about their choice. But I don't understand why they can't admit that they are part of the problem and consider a change of fuel with their next car purchase. Instead, I've had many in this very forum hurling abuse at me for airing my views, my fears. Of course they'll continue to ignore the ever-mounting evidence. Of course they'll continue to abuse me for posting this. Perhaps burying their heads in the sand is protecting them from NOx, but is it protecting their families? It's certainly not protecting my family.

 

[alzieboy]

When you get out to the Maldives , take a deep breath

 

[CabrioDave]

I'm with you there, but am amongst those who innocently chose diesel after persuasion from tax and mpg incentives. Whilst I want petrol next (and electric/hybrid at some future point) my finances mean a bit of a wait ...

 

[Deleted member 6183]

 

[72 dudes]

Brixton Road breaches annual air pollution limit in five days - BBC News

It's not the pollutants from lorries and busses that are the problem, it's diesel cars.

Knighterrant, I understand your concern, but can you explain your sentence above? Why are HGV's, vans, buses, coaches, trains, tractors, boats and ships not to blame? What is it which makes diesel cars the main culprit?

 

[CabrioDave]

Knighterrant, I understand your concern, but can you explain your sentence above? Why are HGV's, vans, buses, coaches, trains, tractors, boats and ships not to blame? What is it which makes diesel cars the main culprit?

Knighterrant has seen today's news. For example: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....s-more-toxic-than-trucks-and-buses-data-shows

 

[HB]

PLEASE STOP ..... I GIVE IN !!!!!

I'm going to set fire the the 350 cdi and the 320 cdi tomorrow !!!

 

[72 dudes]

Thanks for that CD. I'm not convinced. It implies that all the black smoke pumped out by HGVs and buses is less dangerous to health than the invisible NO2 emitted by cars. Not to mention the legions of rusty old Transits and the like knocking around; let's start with them.

BTW, I'm not a big diesel fan, I own two petrol engined cars plus the A180 CDi.

 

[Steveml63]

Hi,
Could it be that the highly efficient, common rail, high pressure diesel engine cars with dpfs actually produce different (more harmful) emissions than older technology bus, truck, van and taxi engines?
Maybe lean burn diesel engines produce more no2 than older engines.
Cheers
Steve

 

[lfckeeper]

Brixton Road breaches annual air pollution limit in five days - BBC News

"Here he goes again". Yes, it's because I'm concerned about what NOx is doing to my children's health and my grandchildren's health. That's NOx from diesel cars. It's not the pollutants from lorries and busses that are the problem, it's diesel cars. I can understand why diesel car owners don't want to and/or can't afford to immediately change to cars that don't pump out the high levels of NOx. I can even understand why they become defensive about their choice. But I don't understand why they can't admit that they are part of the problem and consider a change of fuel with their next car purchase. Instead, I've had many in this very forum hurling abuse at me for airing my views, my fears. Of course they'll continue to ignore the ever-mounting evidence. Of course they'll continue to abuse me for posting this. Perhaps burying their heads in the sand is protecting them from NOx, but is it protecting their families? It's certainly not protecting my family.

Right, you keep preaching (and thats why you get 'abuse' by the way -preaching- when you lose your 3.5 litre petrol car it will help your argument) about how every one with a diesel engine should stop killing your family, I ask this,what are YOU going to do about the NOx your so concerned about? Are you going to move to a remote island with 0 diesel cars? Do you issue full face 'gas masks' to your family? If this is such a big issue and your concerns are that high you would do something yourself wouldn't you?

Rant over.

On to a more considered response.... what do you want to achieve with these posts? Im not going to sell my car because someone ive never met comes on a website telling me I should. Will I consider a petrol car next time? Yes definitely, I hope that helps in some small way. I've said before to you, you clearly don't like diesel cars and this is just the stick you use to beat them.

Friends of the Earth state the following

"Petrol engines are less efficient than diesel engines. They emit more carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons.

Diesel engines produce more nitrogen oxides, sulphur dioxide, black smoke and particles - associated with poor urban air quality"

So I take from that my 3.0 L diesel is bad for the environment but then so is your 3.5l petrol.

 

[geraldrobins]

Thanks for that CD. I'm not convinced. It implies that all the black smoke pumped out by HGVs and buses is less dangerous to health than the invisible NO2 emitted by cars. Not to mention the legions of rusty old Transits and the like knocking around; let's start with them.

BTW, I'm not a big diesel fan, I own two petrol engined cars plus the A180 CDi.

I think it refers to new diesel trucks and buses being more efficient. The older ones are a different story.

 

[geraldrobins]

The other thing is that we don't all drive in city centres, where there is traffic congestion and a high population density,on a daily basis. What about rural areas where there is less traffic concentration and less population density..
Personally my future cars will probably be petrol or hybrid.
Has anyone died from Nox exposure. Linked keeps being mentioned but is it killing people or aggravating other symptoms like asthma etc.

Meanwhile life expectancy is still rising.

 

[grober]

The acronyms folks need to get aquainted with in the near future are
PEMS Portable Emisssion Monitoring System and RDE Real Driving Emissions test. This is at the core of the issue knighterrant is refering to. e.g.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...s-more-toxic-than-trucks-and-buses-data-shows

RDE: What is the real driving emissions test? | Car Emissions Testing Facts

Road Vehicles - Transport - Air - Environment - European Commission

Its difficult to know exactly where we are on the timescale of the introduction of these standards and the exact extent of the vehicles to which they will apply. New vehicles fairly soon I would surmise with older vehicles to follow or possibly be subject to geographical restriction or increasingly punitive taxation till natural wastage and time removes them from the present road fleet.

The present controversy would appear to centre round the fact new heavy commercials have been subject to these increasingly stringent standards for some time now. Cars and light commercials have not. This is due to change from September 2017.
Whether folks agree with it or not , and despite the predictable initial fudging/ lobbying/ rear guard action from the car manufaturers which will follow , it would appear its implementation is probably inevitable .
It may even presage a major switch from compression ignition to spark ignition engines for European car manufacturers Who knows??

 

[Yugguy]

Don't feed the troll.

 

[artyman]

Things started going downhill when the industrial Revolution took place instead of having a widely dispersed population, we started clumping together, a practice which creates problems, sewage rubbish, and with the advent of personal transport more air pollution. Yet there still seems to be an obsession with ensuring everything gravitates towards the capital, - HS2, and other centres of population. Perhaps it's time to start dispersing, which would also help reverse the trend for commuting. Once we used to live near where we worked.

 

[moonloops]

Don't worry, you'll have gone doolally before nox poisoning has any affect:

Dementia rates 'higher near busy roads' - BBC News

 

[flowrider]

Brixton Road breaches annual air pollution limit in five days - BBC News

"Here he goes again". Yes, it's because I'm concerned about what NOx is doing to my children's health and my grandchildren's health. That's NOx from diesel cars. It's not the pollutants from lorries and busses that are the problem, it's diesel cars. I can understand why diesel car owners don't want to and/or can't afford to immediately change to cars that don't pump out the high levels of NOx. I can even understand why they become defensive about their choice. But I don't understand why they can't admit that they are part of the problem and consider a change of fuel with their next car purchase. Instead, I've had many in this very forum hurling abuse at me for airing my views, my fears. Of course they'll continue to ignore the ever-mounting evidence. Of course they'll continue to abuse me for posting this. Perhaps burying their heads in the sand is protecting them from NOx, but is it protecting their families? It's certainly not protecting my family.

Have you thought about moving to somewhere where there is less pollution? Wouldn't that be more beneficial for your children and grandchildren's health than just posting on a car forum. I understand your concern but other than posting links what else are you doing to safe guard your family. Incidentally driving a large petrol engined car doesn't help your anti-pollution arguments however valid they may be.

 

[Dippo]

Have you considered changing your approach? You've repeated a news story from the BBC which talks about high NOx emissions from diesel passenger cars. You don't appear to have bothered to research and provide a link to the original story.

Your reaction to this story is a criticism of forum members who drive diesels for not listening, and for burying their heads in the sand. That's not who the story criticises. I think your criticism should probably be aimed at the scientists and eco warriors who persuaded governments that diesel was the way to go, and at the governments who created taxation policies to push their citizens down that route. If the findings of the report are correct, and the version I've seen seems a little short on verifiable data, then your criticism should also be aimed at the manufacturers who appear to be deliberately flouting either the letter or the spirit of the law. But no, you'll just launch another tirade against those who have simply followed the advice of the previous experts, and who have been guided by government policies.

What do you expect us to do? Do you want to see mass self-flagellation sessions of Mercedes diesel owners atoning for their sin of following government advice, and taking the advice of manufacturers over yours? Do you want us all to immediately sell our current vehicles and buy hybrids, irrespective of any change cycles we may be on? Have you thought this strategy through? If everyone suddenly moves to petrol engines, there may not be enough refinery capacity for you to get the petrol to run your gas guzzler.

The drivers of diesel vehicles are not the main culprits in this scenario. They're a long way down the line, after the scientists, governments, and manufacturers. However, you don't seem to accept that, and just criticise the diesel drivers on this forum.

That's why you get the reaction you do.

 

[Piff]

Hmmm
To me it's not necessarily the quoted emissions for the given vehicle (vw's included) but the amount they are used.
A high emissions vehicle driven for 50,000 miles a year is going to kick out 10 x's more than a 5,000 miles a year vehicle.
Applies to petrol & diesel.

And as an aside, I like the driving characteristics of a diesel auto coupled with the diesel fuel economy. I know I could achieve high torque with a bigger engined petrol but the fuel economy then disappears....

My L200 was not available with a petrol engine even if I wanted one.

 

[Oli]

To be fair to the OP, modern HGVs are pretty clean, they're at Euro 6 and have to have both a DPF and Adblue, I'd bet money on the truck my brother drives kicks out less NoX than my '05 RR Sport.

I don't feel particularly bad about driving a diesel, I bought one because at the time I did a fair bit of driving and a petrol RR Sport wouldn't have been a good idea, I've also spent a fair bit of money on the car recently so am going to keep it for another year, however when I do replace it I will be replacing it with a petrol, I can pass it off as having a clean conscience but really it's just because my commuting is now a lot less so I fancy a 500 BHP Supercharged V8 in my 4x4 next time.