Annoying PCN

[markjay]

Our street has been closed to traffic for a few weeks now due to roadworks. SIL parked the car further away, on the 1st of the month. it was parked in a Residents Parking bay, which is fine, as the car has a valid permit.

Unknowingly to us, on the 2nd, the Council put up a Parking Suspension notice, covering the bay where the car was parked, applicable from the 3rd to the 5th.

On the 4th, the car received a PCN. I only realised that on the afternoon of the 4th, when I walked over to pick up the car.

I appealed the PCN, but the Council rejected the appeal on the grounds that we should have moved the car on the 2nd, I.e. before the 3rd (this is also how I know that the Parking Suspension notice was put up on the 2nd - the Council confirmed it their rejection letter).

This makes no sense - it seems that I need to check my car's parking daily.... and obviously, according to the Council, I can't be sick or go away for couple days.

This is very annoying, and I intend to get advice on pepipoo.

Posted here in case anyone has any input. I could not find anywhere where it says how many days in advance the Council need to post Parking Suspension notices.

 

[whitenemesis]

I'm guessing there is no time limit on parking there? i.e 24hrs no return within ...

 

[Doodle]

This makes no sense - it seems that I need to check my car's parking daily....

I can pretty much guarantee this is what they'll hinge the argument on. As you say, it belies common sense but that's not been seen in Council offices for many years now.

 

[markjay]

I'm guessing there is no time limit on parking there? i.e 24hrs no return within ...

I am not aware of a specific time limit for parking in a Residents Parking bay, certainly nothing is showing on the signage. Cars are often parked in the same spot for weeks, because some car owners use public transport and only occasionally drive their cars. And this wasn't mentioned in the PCN appeal rejection letter, either. That been said.... there may be some obscure regulation published in the Council's Gazette... who knows.

 

[markjay]

I can pretty much guarantee this is what they'll hinge the argument on. As you say, it belies common sense but that's not been seen in Council offices for many years now.

OK, but what if I'm sick for a couple of days and can't leave the house get to the car, for example? Or just went away for the weekend?

Also, historically, when this happened in the past, the Council used to call the car's owner on their mobile asking them to move the car, or, failing that, they'd pick up the car then relocate it to another Residents Parking bay for no charge. Seems they've stopped doing that (or maybe they just didn't do it on this occasion).

 

[Darrell]

OK, but what if I'm sick for a couple of days and can't leave the house get to the car, for example? Or just went away for the weekend?

Also, historically, when this happened in the past, the Council used to call the car's owner on their mobile asking them to move the car, or, failing that, they'd pick up the car then relocate it to another Residents Parking bay for no charge. Seems they've stopped doing that (or maybe they just didn't do it on this occasion).

I’m sure that many residents of London go off abroad for weeks on end leaving their cars parked up.

You say in your initial post that the council rejected the case because you ‘should’ have moved the car.
Is that the law? You should have rather than must do?

 

[markjay]

I’m sure that many residents of London go off abroad for weeks on end leaving their cars parked up.

You say in your initial post that the council rejected the case because you ‘should’ have moved the car.
Is that the law? You should have rather than must do?

No exactly. This is what they said:

Ans that's after acknowledging that the sign was put up after the car was already parked there.

 

[Darrell]

No exactly. This is what they said:

Ans that's after acknowledging that the sign was put up after the car was already parked there.

It doesn’t say you need to check it on a daily basis though.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Fight it! Neither their practice nor judgement is even slightly reasonable.

 

[markjay]

It doesn’t say you need to check it on a daily basis though.

True, but it's implied from there response....

 

[Darrell]

True, but it's implied from there response....

Robbing cnuts.

 

[Doodle]

Also, historically, when this happened in the past, the Council used to call the car's owner on their mobile asking them to move the car, or, failing that, they'd pick up the car then relocate it to another Residents Parking bay for no charge. Seems they've stopped doing that (or maybe they just didn't do it on this occasion).

Neither of those fill the coffers with PCN money though It does seem to be a common line (for example Wandsworth's page - How we suspend parking bays - Wandsworth Borough Council)

Drivers should check for bay suspensions before parking, and each day if the vehicle is to be left for longer periods, but how enforceable that is you would probably have to test in a court of law. It's quite possible that they'll back down on the basis of it not being worth the effort, but I wouldn't want to rely on it.

 

[Dippo]

I got caught with exactly the same thing during Covid - signs put up after the car had been parked. I ended up paying - it didn't seem worth the hassle of banging my head against a brick wall, even if I knew I was right.

 

[Tonygw]

Motorists in big cities are just cash cows.. the councils dont care, they just want your money..

My advice.. leave the cities..

 

[neilrr]

The new Pepipoo site might be helpful - Free Traffic Legal Advice - Index

 

[PXW]

No exactly. This is what they said:

Ans that's after acknowledging that the sign was put up after the car was already parked there.

I'm struggling to see how that gives you a problem, or an obligation to check daily. It was your responsibility, you did ensure it was parked appropriately "before leaving unattended". You did check the signs for the bay that you "intended to park in", and presumably the signs said that you could do so. If they admit the restriction was put in place while the car was there then, although I may be being a bit dim, I don't see how they can show you have done anything wrong - in fact, they seem to have confirmed that you did not. But, councils, money....

 

[markjay]

I'm struggling to see how that gives you a problem, or an obligation to check daily. It was your responsibility, you did ensure it was parked appropriately "before leaving unattended". You did check the signs for the bay that you "intended to park in", and presumably the signs said that you could do so. If they admit the restriction was put in place while the car was there then, although I may be being a bit dim, I don't see how they can show you have done anything wrong - in fact, they seem to have confirmed that you did not. But, councils, money....

I decided to pay, because life is too short.

I can understand that the Council might put up a parking suspension notice when a car is already parked there, and that the owner might not know about it unless they check the car daily, but at the same time I would also expect the Council to either call the owner on his/her mobile asking them to move the car, or pick the car up and relocate it (they have done both these things in the past), or - failing that - to cancel the PCN on appeal.

But this requires common sense... a human trait that government authorities are notoriously lacking.

 

[poormansporsche]

I decided to pay, because life is too short.

I can understand that the Council might put up a parking suspension notice when a car is already parked there, and that the owner might not know about it unless they check the car daily, but at the same time I would also expect the Council to either call the owner on his/her mobile asking them to move the car, or pick the car up and relocate it (they have done both these things in the past), or - failing that - to cancel the PCN on appeal.

But this requires common sense... a human trait that government authorities are notoriously lacking.

I've taken a LA to a tribunal and won.

Would I do it again, not a chance

 

[markjay]

I've taken a LA to a tribunal and won.

Would I do it again, not a chance

Care to elaborate....?

 

[poormansporsche]

Care to elaborate....?

There's a thread on here somewhere.

But long and short, got a ticket for entering a pedestrian zone in my van, despite me checking the LAs website beforehand and it stated "except for loading". Took to tribunal, freedom of information requests blah de blah, 2 lever arches of papers submitted by LA, 6 months hoo ha. Adjudicator slated LA and found in my favour. Next time I will just pay the £60, not worth the agro.