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Anti-McLaren / Pro Ferrari strip Lewis of win

He quite clearly staed:
The team suggested the first driver to exit the first bend should then not be raced by their team-mate. Both drivers agreed to this 'suggestion', shook hands and the rest is history.

The decision definitely effected the result because of a mishap and Coulthard kept his word and allowed Mikka to go by. ;)

Regards
John

I think I said the team did not influence the decision. They could have said no they weren't going to agree.....


Oh yes they did etc etc......
 
muppets. if that was the case, why did they listen to the evicence when it was inadmissible? Waste of everyones time and money.

once again. Muppets of the highest order.
 
They even passed over the ruling they gave last year with Liuzzi - because no-one challenged the admissibility of the appeal they decided to hear it as a "sovereign right", ignoring the sporting regulation they handed down to rule this appeal as inadmissible.

So on the basis of this, the stewards at an event could apply a "drive-through" penalty for "looking at me the wrong way" or "not liking the cut of his job" and it's a done deal - especially it's handed out after the race.

Am I the only one who thinks they make this up as they go along?
 
THE FIA INTERNATIONAL COURT OF APPEAL

Hereby:

1. Declares the appeal inadmissible;

2. Orders the Appellant to pay the costs, in accordance with Article 24 of the Rules of the International Court of Appeal.

So Mclaren have to pay for the FIA Ferrari costs..... even more funding heading to Italy then!
 
At the risk of getting shot down in flames (and I'm a Mclaren fan) Hamilton made a schoolboy error and he knew it, I have now watched the incident several times with some very experienced racing drivers and they agree Hamilton did not give the lead back to KR but only partially gave it back, as I said in other posts you have to let the car you are competing against take the lead back by at least one full car length, before the start and finish line before you commence another overtake. Hamilton clearly did not do this the stewards saw him and imposed the 10 second drive through penalty, which if given in the last 5 laps of a GP translates to a 25 second time deduction from your finishing time. Mclaren should have known better and the comments made by Schumacher (love him or hate him) after the race were bang on the money and 100% correct. Time to stop playing politics, GP's should be won on the race track and not in the court room, as in any sporting event the referees decision is final, time to lick your wounds and move on McClaren
 
Silly of Hamilton really.

He was much faster than the Ferarri & could have taken it at any time within the next few laps. He didn't need to push his luck with a risky move such as this borderline yield.
 
I said early on that I didn't think Hamilton gave the lead back properly. Never the less, I have to say that the various incidents over the last few years have tainted my impression of the Ferrari brand, which I now associate with cheating and dirty tricks rather than motorsport excellence. It would certainly put me off buying one.

Not that that was going to happen anytime soon, but you know what I mean.
 
Somewhat strangley I found myself in the very FIA courtroom in Paris today which had seen the Hamilton hearing yesterday.
We were working on future sportscar regulations (technical not political!) with the objective of making the cars less likley to fly in the future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvszkImy1BA

Whilst I cannot comment on all FIA activities, in terms of driving forward safety standards, they are beyond reproach.
 
At the risk of getting shot down in flames (and I'm a Mclaren fan) Hamilton made a schoolboy error and he knew it, I have now watched the incident several times with some very experienced racing drivers and they agree Hamilton did not give the lead back to KR but only partially gave it back, as I said in other posts you have to let the car you are competing against take the lead back by at least one full car length, before the start and finish line before you commence another overtake. Hamilton clearly did not do this the stewards saw him and imposed the 10 second drive through penalty, which if given in the last 5 laps of a GP translates to a 25 second time deduction from your finishing time. Mclaren should have known better and the comments made by Schumacher (love him or hate him) after the race were bang on the money and 100% correct. Time to stop playing politics, GP's should be won on the race track and not in the court room, as in any sporting event the referees decision is final, time to lick your wounds and move on McClaren

I don't think it's what has happened per ce that is the issue with most people. It's the way things are handled.

The issues I have:

F1 has never had a clear interpretation of what giving back the advantage means - highlighted / confirmed by MrE senior (an F1 race engineer for many years) and the clarity given at Monza.

The decision made by the stewards is after the event, has a material effect on the outcome of the race and is completely outside any form of appeal. If you take a situation where a mistake had clearly been made by the stewards, then the wronged party has no right of recourse.

The somewhat strange ruling of the appeal court that allowed it to hear Liuzzi's appeal from Japan '07. This was inadmissible for the same reasons (drive-thru cannot be appealed) but because this was not challenged by any of the parties involved it allowed the appeal (albeit with an unsuccessful outcome for Liuzzi).


Yes, LH may have been a bit hot on the pedal. One could also argue that Raikonnen was in breach of the sporting regulations that state that a driver cannot crowd out another to the outside or inside of the bend? Or is that defined as a "racing incident"?

What I find distasteful about the whole saga is that there is no consistency or transparency to the process.

Take another example - fuel at Brazil. McLaren appeal the stewards decision but it's ruled inadmissible because they were not "materially affected" by the teams not being excluded - even though LH would have gained points and thus won the championship. However, Ferrari are allowed to be present at this appeal and cross-examine witnesses because they were "materially affected" by the outcome of the appeal. Go figure.

Until the FIA get themselves sorted as a regulatory body that can provide transparency and consistency to a reasonable level then, in my view, they have little credibility as such.
 
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Had a crash? Need to win the world championship? Don't worry just limp across the track and take off your nearest championship title contender - we'll do the rest

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Ferrari International Assistance - Making it up as we go along for over 100 years
 
I don't think it's what has happened per ce that is the issue with most people. It's the way things are handled.

The issues I have:

F1 has never had a clear interpretation of what giving back the advantage means - highlighted / confirmed by MrE senior (an F1 race engineer for many years) and the clarity given at Monza.

The decision made by the stewards is after the event, has a material effect on the outcome of the race and is completely outside any form of appeal. If you take a situation where a mistake had clearly been made by the stewards, then the wronged party has no right of recourse.

The somewhat strange ruling of the appeal court that allowed it to hear Liuzzi's appeal from Japan '07. This was inadmissible for the same reasons (drive-thru cannot be appealed) but because this was not challenged by any of the parties involved it allowed the appeal (albeit with an unsuccessful outcome for Liuzzi).


Yes, LH may have been a bit hot on the pedal. One could also argue that Raikonnen was in breach of the sporting regulations that state that a driver cannot crowd out another to the outside or inside of the bend? Or is that defined as a "racing incident"?

What I find distasteful about the whole saga is that there is no consistency or transparency to the process.

Take another example - fuel at Brazil. McLaren appeal the stewards decision but it's ruled inadmissible because they were not "materially affected" by the teams not being excluded - even though LH would have gained points and thus won the championship. However, Ferrari are allowed to be present at this appeal and cross-examine witnesses because they were "materially affected" by the outcome of the appeal. Go figure.

Until the FIA get themselves sorted as a regulatory body that can provide transparency and consistency to a reasonable level then, in my view, they have little credibility as such.

As Mactech above I believe the FIA have the bulk of the sport sorted particularly on the safety side but I agree they do lack transparency and consistency and they need to work on their image in this area or risk damaging the sport.

I thought giving back advantage was clearly defined in the sporting code? According to Mr Schumacher it is and has he said in his interview after the race, handing back the lead is by allowing the disadvantaged car to get one full car length back in front before the start finish line before recommencing an overtake? Whilst I bow to Mr Schumachers superior knowledge on this in formula one I can also confirm this line of conduct does also apply in other formulas so cannot see any reason why it should not be true in F1?

My interpretation of events is that the decision made by the stewards was during the event not after, last 5 laps to be precise but the penalty could not be imposed until the race was over when they deducted 25 seconds completely in line with the rules

I agree the FIA come accross with a definite bias to Ferrari but professional teams should know better than to appeal when they clearly have no grounds to do so, as this does just as much damage to the sport as the perceived FIA bias
 
You know F1 has for quite awhile been described as a 'Circus', but in the sense of it all coming to town and setting-up in quick order - Well now it's just a Circus, and a '3-ringed one at that! - Personally I think Mclaren should just boycott the whole thing - which of course they can't do really - But I really think the Drivers should do something about this, which of course they won't - too much money involved now - That's the problem when stupid amounts of money are involved, that becomes the ruling thing, not principals, they go out the window. Basically they have all 'Whored' themselves to those who control the 'purse-strings' - nothing more - nothing less.

I for one will not go out of my way to watch again, if it's on, it's on, just like any other program you end up watching because there is nothing else really on. For me it's a shame, but hey, everything and everyone has their price, no matter what they say. I wouldn't trust myself with that sort of power, so why should I trust anyone else.

'F1 is dead - Long live F1'

Good-Night, and may your God go with You.
 
My interpretation of events is that the decision made by the stewards was during the event not after, last 5 laps to be precise but the penalty could not be imposed until the race was over when they deducted 25 seconds completely in line with the rules

It took rather a long time to declare that penalty after the decision then.

I think they took fright.

I agree the FIA come accross with a definite bias to Ferrari but professional teams should know better than to appeal when they clearly have no grounds to do so, as this does just as much damage to the sport as the perceived FIA bias

That's a bit like saying it's OK to be sexist because those women should know their place.

F1 had a final opportunity to sort things out today and took the easy option.

I stopped watching live this year and stopped watching recordings or highlights with Monza.

I don't intend to soil myself by being interested in this 'sport' again.
 
I said in other posts you have to let the car you are competing against take the lead back by at least one full car length, before the start and finish line

The rules state you have to give the lead back.
it does not say 1 car length or 20 car lengths, and which car length do you use?
The ferrari is the longest car , or is it the length of the overtaken car?
That means that you will have to come down, measure the length and then jump in and drive off?
This rule of wait till the next bend has just been made up as well.
Hamilton was squeezed out. how about the rule that says leave enough space for the car alongside you, like sato and coulthard last year
 
Somewhat strangley I found myself in the very FIA courtroom in Paris today which had seen the Hamilton hearing yesterday.
We were working on future sportscar regulations (technical not political!) with the objective of making the cars less likley to fly in the future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvszkImy1BA

Whilst I cannot comment on all FIA activities, in terms of driving forward safety standards, they are beyond reproach.


have you asked mark webber and peter dumbreck?
 
This will get Lewis fired up...let's hope he mullers the competition in the final races!
 

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