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Anti-McLaren / Pro Ferrari strip Lewis of win

I think all that anyone wants to see in any sport is good competition resulting in the best winning. Currently in F1 this is being artificially quoshed. If only those concerned could see past their pockets.
For the last ten years or more we have had to put up with this and to be fair it was nice to see the two ferrari's actually 'racing' each other with Kimi going by Massa.

Team orders have been outlawed for years and yet smuck face had a contract which demanded team orders... Go figure.

John
 
For the last ten years or more we have had to put up with this and to be fair it was nice to see the two ferrari's actually 'racing' each other with Kimi going by Massa.

Team orders have been outlawed for years and yet smuck face had a contract which demanded team orders... Go figure.

John
Have they been outlawed John?
Its open comment at the last race that Ferrari are about to issue team orders for either driver depending on whom they think will have the best chance of the World Championship. All this uncertainty just delays their decision ( oh what a shame!)

If team orders have realy been outlawed then Ferrari are just flagrantley going against their best freind....the FIA....I doubt that!:devil:
 
Have they been outlawed John?
Its open comment at the last race that Ferrari are about to issue team orders for either driver depending on whom they think will have the best chance of the World Championship. All this uncertainty just delays their decision ( oh what a shame!)

If team orders have realy been outlawed then Ferrari are just flagrantley going against their best freind....the FIA....I doubt that!:devil:
:D :D Far be it for me to gossip but under the chapter 'The Race' in the FIA regulations for formula 1 reference 39.1

Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited.

regards
John
 
Its open comment at the last race that Ferrari are about to issue team orders for either driver depending on whom they think will have the best chance of the World Championship.

It's an open assumption that they will use team orders. Therefore people talk about Ferrari doing it whether legal or not. It says something about the team that this assumption is made and talked about so openly.

It's not provable.
 
It's an open assumption that they will use team orders. Therefore people talk about Ferrari doing it whether legal or not. It says something about the team that this assumption is made and talked about so openly.

It's not provable.
It is easy to pick out one team but without even thinking too hard we can highlight the Coulthard, Hakkinan agreement when the two drivers made a gentleman's agreement that back fired slightly.

Damon Hill and Ralf Schumacher at Belgium :devil: when Ralf was ordered not to race against Damon... The list is endless but it all came to a head when the Ferrari duo made a laughing stock of the situation with smuck face and Barrichello. Twas after that race that the FIA insisted there wouldf be no more team orders but they totally ignored the fact that smuck face had a cast iron contract which flew in the face of that regulation.

Regards
John
 
It is easy to pick out one team but without even thinking too hard we can highlight the Coulthard, Hakkinan agreement when the two drivers made a gentleman's agreement that back fired slightly.

Technically they did race.

.... to the first corner.
 
The hakinnen/coultard incident is only teammates doing what they felt right. The team did not influence the decision and Coulthard was given the winners bonus, not Mika for that race.

At the previous race to that, Williams were asked to let Mika thru, and they did. and so was couthard, which he also did. JV won the championship and MS was disqualified from the whole season.

Mika's first win was actualy his 3rd.

Anyhow, Team orders are allowed under circumstances when it doesn't materially affect the world championship. So if one team has one driver with a chance of winning, and the other has no chance, but could take points from him, and thus, allow another teams driver to gain, then they may instruct a driver to change position.

However, the rule quoted above still apllies. Thats for each race. Therefore, teams orders has to be an instruction given before the race. Not during. Typical FIA fudge thanks to Max. It was meant to prevent blatant position changes under race conditions, but that itself would prevent a team from running their team, the way they want. So there is a qualifying factor for the championship.

Apart from the last race, it almost looked as if Kimi was following these rules anyhow.

But the question you would have to ask is? do you think Kimi will follow them anyway? He is a winner and will only go for the win. He would rather be sacked than not win, unless he has no possible chance of winning, and at present he still has.
 
translation required

In the interests of clarity perhaps I should provide a "translation" of the rule in question|:- Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited. actually reads " if teams want to fiddle the result of a race that's OK but fer ch****'s sake don't make it obvious to the punters who have paid good money thinking they are going to see a real race";)
 
MS was disqualified from the whole season.
That is the biggest fudge of all time. This person can win races when he fails to complete a drive through penalty and then allegedly be removed from a season's racing but still be allowed to keep his points!! What was the point of the punishment? McLaren had their points removed last year and those points were taken away..... gone. smuck face was hauled before the beak, found guilty :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: but then what? As runner-up (first placed looser) his name was removed from the results. Wow what an awful punishment especially as he was allowed to keep the points :mad: :mad: :mad: Unlike McLaren

I have no problem with team orders when the number two driver has no chance of winning a championship and his team-mate has, but just reading these posts highlights what a fudge it all is. I agree about Haikkonen and Coulthard to a point but they are paid to race, not make 'unofficial' :rolleyes: agreements. Don't forget this was the first race of the season and the team did not want to put undue stress on their very fast cars. The Damon Hill, Ralf Schumacher example was blatant, but nowhere near as blatant as the Barrichello, smuck face farce.

Another extremely strange and perverted issue which turned me right off Ferrari and their shenanigans was the way they treated Eddie Irvine. When smuck face broke his leg the World Championship was there for the taking but Ferrari did everything they could to prevent their number two driver from taking the title. No one, but no one will ever convince me that it was an accident when a tyre man comes out to change at wheel during a routine pit-stop and then forgets to bring out the tyre!!!! This may not be team orders but it is certainly NOT in the spirit of motor racing.

When Massa won his first race for Ferrari the first words he muttered when he crossed the line was an apology!!!! (smuck face was unable to overtake the cars in front even though Massa was standing by to surrender his lead.

The FIA should realise that Ferrari have for ages believed they are bigger than the sport they are participating in and that to me is bad, bad for the competition and bad for us.

In qualifying Raikkonen achieved his fastest lap under yellow flag conditions, everyone thought he would go out and do another lap in case the officials decided he had failed to slow down for the waved yellows. Ferrari did not bother doing this.

Again with Raikkonen, do we remember the exhaust pipe blowing about in the breeze and liable to fall off? Lap after lap the car stayed out with this piece of metal flailing about in the breeze. The car came in to be refuelled (I thought he should have been called in by the officials way before this) The team re-fuelled the car but the pit crew left this loose piece of metal in situ. The car went back onto the circuit with this piece of metal still hanging by a thread, until eventually the item was ripped off the car and thankfully flew off into the outfield without causing injury. I certainly did not expect Ferrari to voluntarily come into the pits to have the part removed but the race stewards allegedly have a responsibility of care and that car should in my opinion have been called in as soon as the piece was identified as being loose and potentially having the ability to fall off and perhaps cause very serious injury or even death.

I think those of us that are criticising Raikkonen are still being unfair. He doesn't do the interview thing, he is not a P.R. person, he is a racer, who at the moment appears to be having problems, but he is in my opinion one of the best drivers out there and something is wrong, something is not right with the car and Massa is definitely getting more out of this faulted package.

PLEASE, please, please let there be rain this week-end...

I wish Hamilton's personality equalled his driving abilities, but we are talking racing, not personalities and so 'Go Hamilton, go!!!

And a big

50014~Finger-Posters.jpg


To the Ferrari International Association :devil: :devil: :D

Regards
John the anti FIA person
 
"PLEASE, please, please let there be rain this week-end... "

Plenty of rain right now in 1st practice!
 
Beautifully put!! :bannana:


edit: John's post that is (nothing wrong with eguru's either of course..)
 
"PLEASE, please, please let there be rain this week-end... "

Plenty of rain right now in 1st practice!
RATS!!!!! Missed it.

Next practice 1pm Yer tis the link

Regards
John the sun dance king :devil:
 
Speaking as you find

I have just watched second practice and was extremely impressed with the dedication and commitment of Ferrari. First practice was a washout but unlike McLaren Raikkonen put in a number of laps, whereas McLaren merely completed a few bedding in laps and never recorded any times. Second practice saw a wet track but no rain. Out came the Ferrari's and they competed lap after lap with Raikkonen again putting in the fastest times. I might have missed Hamilton coming out whilst the track was wet, but I was impressed with Raikkonen who reaped the rewards of his dedication.

Hamilton finished the session in fourth with the Ferrari heading the list. I don't like the attitude of this team but the car has clearly had problems in the wet and took advantage of the awful conditions. No doubt some folks will suggest that McLaren might not need the wet weather experience, but to me each circuit is different and Hamilton should have been out there getting the wet weather experience.

I might be in the minority but once again we saw numerous cars missing the chicane because of the conditions, but in days of old there was no run off. (there were no chicanes) By having these enormous run-offs then drivers became lackadaisical; instead of keeping the car on the black stuff they simply let the car run off the circuit because they know they will not be harmed, or the car damaged, I'm against that philosophy. There must be risk to get the cream to come to the surface, there must be risks, and leaving the circuit should have penalties, this will sort out the wheat from the chaff and punish those drivers not capable of keeping their steed on the racing circuit.

Regards
John
 
but in days of old there was no run off. (there were no chicanes)

How old are you????????????????

[monza anorak mode]they put the chicanes into Monza in the 1930's :)

ok they took them out again but I think they were reinstated in the very early seventies [/monza anorak mode]

I must stress I only know this because I was involved with building some 3D models of the track for a race simulator :)

Andy
 

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