Anyone watch Mr Bates vs The Post Office ?

[del320]

I wonder if Vennels and the rest of the crew are aiming to use the Ernest Saunders defence!

Their powers of recollection are staggeringly poor.

 

[GeeJayW]

Ms Vennels has apparently admitted that the evidence given to MPs wasn't true... Despicable! She should be spending some time in one of His Majesty's hotels.

 

[grober]

Ms Vennels has apparently admitted that the evidence given to MPs wasn't true... Despicable! She should be spending some time in one of His Majesty's hotels.

del

 

[GeeJayW]

del

???

 

[Darrell]

Ms Vennels has apparently admitted that the evidence given to MPs wasn't true... Despicable! She should be spending some time in one of His Majesty's hotels.

Yep along with the blood transfusion perps.

 

[GeeJayW]

Yep along with the blood transfusion perps.

Especially those that continued to procure blood products from the USA even though the risks there had been identified. Those in the USA that knowingly sold infected blood products to the UK (and perhaps elsewhere) should also be brought to justice, though the chances of that happening are probably vanishingly small.

 

[m80]

She had enough arrogance to believe she was still able to deflect blame today. "I didn't know then what I know now", which was demonstrated, imo, to be BS.

Can't see Vennells getting any sleep tonight.
By day 3 I reckon she will be a wreck.

 

[MrGreedy]

Those in the USA that knowingly sold infected blood products to the UK (and perhaps elsewhere) should also be brought to justice, though the chances of that happening are probably vanishingly small.

I'd reign in that optimism. I think your overstating the likelihood of justice or procecution by an order of magnitude or two. This feels like it's got inneptitude, corruption, arrogance and greed woven through it at all senior levels within major organisations and public services. It feels like a 'too big to admit' problem so the machine will get to work making a public song an dance about it so the thick public (who broadly didn't give two hoots before it was a TV show) can feel better about themselves before getting back to the important stuff like culture wars over trivial issues (rather than asking questions about the big stuff).

 

[del320]

Vennels reduced to tears again during a brutal interrogation by Sam Stein KC.

His line of questioning rather akin to "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

This is as close to a public flogging as you'll see in Britain!!!

 

[m80]

Vennels reduced to tears again during a brutal interrogation by Sam Stein KC.

His line of questioning rather akin to "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

This is as close to a public flogging as you'll see in Britain!!!

It's bit scrappy today methinks.
Beer QC showed a far greater level of skill. Rather than saying "this is your own creation isn't it", he would demonstrate that it was.

With the battering Vennells has had today there is increased danger of her gaining some sympathy.
But I was wrong with my earlier assumption. She has held up better than I expected.
She's still massively complicit in the many injustices, imho.

 

[mattc]

What chance that absolutely NOBODY will pay for this with prison time? Clearly a lot of people's reputations are in tatters but that's cold comfort to the subbies I'm sure.

How some of these people sleep at night is beyond me.

 

[m80]

What chance that absolutely NOBODY will pay for this with prison time? Clearly a lot of people's reputations are in tatters but that's cold comfort to the subbies I'm sure.

How some of these people sleep at night is beyond me.

and also,
will anything change to improve our confidence that such corporate bullying isn't a standard that will continue?

Go in heavy handed to induce fear of the big uns.
Use of greater financial resources to out do any defendant.

Is any ombudsman really good enough for us, or are they artificial protection?

 

[JHS]

It's bit scrappy today methinks.
Beer QC showed a far greater level of skill. Rather than saying "this is your own creation isn't it", he would demonstrate that it was.

With the battering Vennells has had today there is increased danger of her gaining some sympathy.
But I was wrong with my earlier assumption. She has held up better than I expected.
She's still massively complicit in the many injustices, imho.

She has to take responsibility as the CEO but I am left with the opinion, and I have been watching the inquisition, that she relied very heavily on her managers in an effort not to micro manage. Instead she was a weak manager and the subordinates actually ran the show, keeping much from her.
IMO these managers/subordinates are complicit and should also be quizzed.

 

[del320]

She has to take responsibility as the CEO but I am left with the opinion, and I have been watching the inquisition, that she relied very heavily on her managers in an effort not to micro manage. Instead she was a weak manager and the subordinates actually ran the show, keeping much from her.
IMO these managers/subordinates are complicit and should also be quizzed.

I worked under Fred Goodwin for three years until I retired in 2003. I my interest in the inquiry was learning how certain aspects of POL were run, particularly as RBS frequently recruited ex Post Office employees.

The Shred was a micro-manager par excellence in control of everything from table cutlery to ABN Amro - and we know that didn't end well.

However, at the branch cash handling level, RBS never prosecuted dishonesty - although they ensured any individual would find future gainful employment difficult. But such incidents were very rare. What was unusual, at the time, were the very direct reporting lines to the CEO and Board level. At one point, I was only three steps from God!

Contrast then, a b@$tard like Fred with his Morning Beatings, with the incompetence of Vennels and her apparent inability to understand briefings and emails and reluctance to question or challenge points of procedure, etc.

I hope Vennels' present "lifestyle difficulties" will become a marker and warning for other CEOs and Directors in the future.

I believe efforts are being made to relieve her of around £3m of ill-gotten gains - it would be a gesture anyway...

 

[m80]

I believe efforts are being made to relieve her of around £3m of ill-gotten gains - it would be a gesture anyway...

I would have thought that she would have had a lot input from lawyers.
With morning briefings / evening debriefing.

At the end of these 3 days I guess she is massively relieved, and has paid for a few lawyers holidays.

 

[colinallcars]

She has to take responsibility as the CEO but I am left with the opinion, and I have been watching the inquisition, that she relied very heavily on her managers in an effort not to micro manage. Instead she was a weak manager and the subordinates actually ran the show, keeping much from her.
IMO these managers/subordinates are complicit and should also be quizzed.

Many were and more will be.

How could she not know what was going on? It was in the press and on the TV.

 

[m80]

She has to take responsibility as the CEO but I am left with the opinion, and I have been watching the inquisition, that she relied very heavily on her managers in an effort not to micro manage. Instead she was a weak manager and the subordinates actually ran the show, keeping much from her.

If this were true then she wasn't needed to take the P.O. from loss making into profit. I mean surely anyone could have said, "just get on with it, and don't bother me with details".
Surely she was active at the helm.

IMO these managers/subordinates are complicit and should also be quizzed.

Well yeh, if those culpable can be all be found, I would imagine that their defence will be "it was 'er, she told me to."

Am I right in thinking the outcome of the inquiry has no legal meaning? In that while fingers might get pointed with the conclusion report, that it doesn't relate to any penalty.

So we will have much media discussion of the report.
The legal teams will be fully appraised of any prosecution points and strategy. They will be enabled to put a different slant on interpretations of the evidence already seen. Likely as not it will sound more credible than "no one told me what I know now".

 

[Harrythedog]

Vennells and other PO officials should be locked up however not much mention of Fujitsu, they should return every penny the PO paid them and also be totally responsible for all compensation paid to victims. They’re the ones that defended/lied/altered their dodgy software all in the name of maintaining a financial contract.

 

[Darrell]

Vennells and other PO officials should be locked up however not much mention of Fujitsu, they should return every penny the PO paid them and also be totally responsible for all compensation paid to victims. They’re the ones that defended/lied/altered their dodgy software all in the name of maintaining a financial contract.

The woman is a ****ing disgrace.

Just saw her now on the News at 10 with her stupid ugly putrid looking face turning on the waterworks in a shameful and embarrassing attempt to cover her probable skinny white ****.

 

[st13phil]

however not much mention of Fujitsu, they should return every penny the PO paid them and also be totally responsible for all compensation paid to victims. They’re the ones that defended/lied/altered their dodgy software

I’ve watched this story develop since it broke in Computer Weekly all those years ago and I’ve never seen anything that clearly defines whether it was Fujitsu lying to the Post Office, or the Post Office choosing to ignore warnings (from Fujitsu) regarding the data errors that lead to the wrongful prosecutions.

What is clear is that Fujitsu were well aware of the data processing failures in the Horizon system. The as yet unanswered question is whether they failed to alert the Post Office to those failures, or whether the Post Office chose to ignore warnings and instead relied upon their contract with their supplier to guarantee their silence.

And for the benefit of those for which this whole thing is a surprise in terms of mission critical computer systems operating with known defects, while someone in the supply chain massages the data to keep the show on the road, welcome to the world of multi-user IT.