Apple v Microsoft

[fuzzer]

Creating a showhouse , buy a mac and plonk it down.

Actually want to do some real work on it ? buy a pc

 

[Dryce]

One observation I noted over the years is that MAC users seem to feel the constantly justify themselves and their purchases.

I just dont get it, I run both but find there's so much I can't do in OSx. I agree they look pretty but that doesnt explain why so many men buy them.

There's a lot that you can't do in Windows.

Ironically it's the really techy stuff that Mac OS X is good at these days!

How times have changed. I think the telling point is that if you want the latest version of Adobe Elements then it's 4.0 on the Mac and 5.0 on Windows.

 

[Spinal]

Spinal - you do of course realise that just like MS, Apple use different teams for different products? One dodgy component is hardly a reflection on the whole company is it?

Mercedes Benz entire reputation let down by faulty MAS sensors? Does it really matter overall?

Of course not, but its a satirical page/site and as such, it will try to tease the company in any way possible!

As for OsX being able to do the techie stuff, OsX can't do anything more than Linux can... and linux is considerably cheaper (and more expandable and has more features). Whats worse is that people think that linux is "hard" or "not user friendly". That all depends on what distro you use; there are distributions specifically designed to emulate windows or osx.

Personally, I've found a Toshiba with Windows/Linux has never failed me...

Michele

 

[Dryce]

As for OsX being able to do the techie stuff, OsX can't do anything more than Linux can... and linux is considerably cheaper (and more expandable and has more features). Whats worse is that people think that linux is "hard" or "not user friendly". That all depends on what distro you use; there are distributions specifically designed to emulate windows or osx.

OS X can run commercial user software that Linux can't.

It can do just about everything else that Linux can.

I'm not grinding an axe. I run all three plus openBSD. If I had to live with just one it would be Mac OS X because it sits astride both worlds.

 

[scotth_uk]

One observation I noted over the years is that MAC users seem to feel the constantly justify themselves and their purchases.

/rant
Because Windows users feel the need to annoy them all the time!
/rant off

As mentioned elsewhere, I used (and by that I mean owned) PCs for 21 years before making the switch, and a fair few years of various computers prior to my first PC - now that I have switched, people assume that I've lost my mind or something.

The person that I have the most trouble with is my mate who is quite senior in MS Australia. He's convinced that I have hit my head on something. What makes me laugh is that the last Mac he saw running was a G3 something or other, yet he thinks that it hasn't moved on since then.

He spends all of his time pushing me on two points

1) That Windows is essentially responsible for the state of modern computing today. I completely agree with this point. Successive versions of Windows have introduced the world to modern computing, and has become what most people think of when referring to a computer.

2) That Windows XP/Vista is the saviour of all mankind and is the best at everything. This is sadly not the case, and is typically a view held by those that haven't even seen a Mac running.

I have respect for all plaforms, however they all have strengths and weaknesses. Windows *is* the standard for computing. This cannot be denied, however it doesn't negate the usefulness of other machines.

The only applications that I need to use these days on a PC are Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Project and Visio. Of those, it's only Project and Visio that I cannot run natively on the Mac. Perhaps the odd firmware update utility for a mobile phone or something. When I had a Mac Mini G4, the speed of running these apps virtually was not so good - now with the Intel Macs, I can run them just fine in quite a few different ways.

One of the points that people are missing (in my opinion) is that there is plenty of Mac software that cannot be run on a PC as well. With a modern Mac, I can run the apps I want to run from the Mac world as well as the apps that I have to run from the PC world.

I really rate Linux, and think that over time it will gain in popularity, outside the geek/nerd/it set. I've had a really good crack at quite a few versions of linux and BSD, but they do not float my boat. I also think that Windows is pretty good. Both of these things in mind, I hand on heart prefer to use a Mac (part of this is down to the hardware).

For me the combination of the hardware and software feels better and is more useful for my needs.

 

[Dryce]

1) That Windows is essentially responsible for the state of modern computing today. I completely agree with this point. Successive versions of Windows have introduced the world to modern computing, and has become what most people think of when referring to a computer.

My perspective over almost 30 years in IT is a little different.

Windows has a lot to answer for with regard to the state of modern computing.

Back in '92 I was working in an office with Sun servers, workstations and X terminals. The environment was more robust and flexible than anything MS have 15 years on. I don't think a lot of the guys at MS were even aware of what we could do back then with "real" computers and operating systems. NT 3.1 was just limping into existence at that time.

The one really really impressive thing about Windows is legacy support. Despite all the baggage it carries Windows is amazingly backward compatible. I can still run DOS software from over 20 years ago.

 

[frog1520]

As a unix user for 20+ years, it might be surprising to hear that I dont like OsX that much. Yes, I prefer it to windows, but its all a bit weird. Reminds me of when IBM created AIX and changed loads of stuff just to be different.

The really interesting thing is Apple have managed to put a unix box on peoples desktops, without most of them even noticing!!!

 

[scotth_uk]

Dryce,

With all due respect to your comments, as they are indeed valid - I've probably not made the point clearly enough.

What I am referring to is the fact that MS have essentially developed a product that almost every computer using person in the world has come to accept as the standard. Regardless of the ability or quality, Windows is the product that has shaped the way we do everything.

Removing geeks/nerds/it people from the situation, Joe Bloggs can really only do what Windows lets him do, and becomes his reference point. When a new version of Windows comes out, he can do a few more things. And so on, and so on.

I don't enjoy using Windows anymore (*), but I accept the fact that it's the standard for everything, and that all other products must try to match it, or improve upon it.

* There is one main reason that I hate windows from the core of my very soul until the end of time. What's entertaining is that my issue can be fixed with a simple powertoy toggle. Programs stealing focus. When I have 5-10 windows open, I expect them to all do what they are told, and NOT to bring themselves forward when I am typing in another window, just because they are ready for me..... This might seem like a minor issue, however I am rarely on one machine for very long, so it means making the change on every machine. I have actually kicked monitors off tables in rage due to this ******* reason.

DOS: http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/dos1boot.jpg

I miss DOS a lot. It did exactly what you told it to. Gone are the days of config.sys and autoexec.bat, maing use of himem.sys or something like QEMM to free up some base ram to load a big program. Desqview for multi tasking and terminal programs to access bulletin boards.

 

[Sp!ke]

Dryce,

I miss DOS a lot. It did exactly what you told it to. Gone are the days of config.sys and autoexec.bat, maing use of himem.sys or something like QEMM to free up some base ram to load a big program. Desqview for multi tasking and terminal programs to access bulletin boards.

I dont know about that, I was playing around only this week creating a DOS boot partition and making my own autoexec.bat files and config.sys files for the purpose.

Also, simple scripting (login scripts) are fare and away the most effective way of getting things done.

Oh, one more thing about OSx, what am I to do with my 7 button mouse? Its completely wasted

 

[scotth_uk]

Oh, one more thing about OSx, what am I to do with my 7 button mouse? Its completely wasted

I dunno - install the Mac drivers for it assign 5 more functions?

 

[Spinal]

I dunno - install the Mac drivers for it assign 5 more functions?

Has anyone bothered to develop those drivers?

 

[scotth_uk]

Has anyone bothered to develop those drivers?

Am I missing something? I thought that Logitech provided Mac software with their mice to enable programming of all features? Even Microsoft provide Mac drivers for their mice.

Logitech:

Download Instruction

The Logitech Control Center (LCC) supports Mac OS X (both Power PC and Intel based Macs).
This release supports the new MX™ Revolution and VX Revolution™ mice with MicroGear Precision Scrolling and One-Touch Search features added.

For all supported products, you can program your keyboard and/or mouse buttons to perform different functions and to take full advantage of your Logitech keyboard, mouse or trackball. With the LCC and your Logitech keyboard, you can:

• Browse the Internet using dedicated keys that provide one-touch access to your favorite sites.
• Launch your email application by pressing a button.
• Play music and control the system speaker using built-in buttons.
• Open frequently used items, such as documents, folders and applications, with a single keystroke.

You can also use the LCC with your Logitech mouse or trackball to:

• Scroll in windows of applications built for MacOS X. You can scroll up and down with a single keystroke or wheel movement.
• Switch between open applications.
• Show contextual menus with a single mouse click.
• Simulate keystrokes to provide shortcuts to commands you use regularly.

The download file contains support for the following languages:

1. English
   French
   German
   Italian
   Dutch
   Spanish

System Requirements:

• Macintosh OS X 10.3 - 10.4.10
• Logitech USB pointing device or keyboard.

Microsoft:

Overview

You can use IntelliType Pro and IntelliPoint software to customize the features of the Microsoft® mouse and keyboard. By using the software, you can reassign mouse buttons and keyboard keys to open a program, file, or Web page. Some keyboard models provide a fingerprint scanner for advanced identity management. You can also use the software to control the wheel settings, and assign commands and application-specific functions to the mouse buttons and keyboard keys, for example:
Magnify
Zoom
Show Desktop
Keyboard Settings
Horizontal Scrolling
This software is for Mac OS X versions 10.2 to 10.4 (not for v10.0 or v10.1).

 

[NiallerS320]

I use M$ & intellimouse for my 7 button laser thingymebob, works perfectly, have always used M$ mice since os 10 came about. But for anyone who's using the sh1te apple mice, hold the ctrl key for right click.

 

[Spinal]

I use M$ & intellimouse for my 7 button laser thingymebob, works perfectly, have always used M$ mice since os 10 came about. But for anyone who's using the sh1te apple mice, hold the ctrl key for right click.

Actually Apple's new mice (the "Mighty Mouse") have multiple clicks. It doesn't look like it, but there is a difference between clicking ont he right and the left sides. It rarely works well, but there is that option... Also, if you squeeze the sides (kind of like when you hold/move the mouse) thats another button - which gets EXTREMELY annoying unless you disable it...

Michele

 

[Dryce]

Actually Apple's new mice (the "Mighty Mouse") have multiple clicks. It doesn't look like it, but there is a difference between clicking ont he right and the left sides. It rarely works well, but there is that option... Also, if you squeeze the sides (kind of like when you hold/move the mouse) thats another button - which gets EXTREMELY annoying unless you disable it...

Confused me completely when I got one.

I also still can't get the hang of the squeezy side buttons but the left/right clicking on the main button works fine once you get use to it and the little scroller button in the middle becomes quite natural as well.

 

[scotth_uk]

I got a Mighty Mouse with my iMac. Hate it. Using a logitech now.

 

[NiallerS320]

Actually Apple's new mice (the "Mighty Mouse") have multiple clicks. It doesn't look like it, but there is a difference between clicking ont he right and the left sides. It rarely works well, but there is that option... Also, if you squeeze the sides (kind of like when you hold/move the mouse) thats another button - which gets EXTREMELY annoying unless you disable it...

Michele

The mighty mouse is a complete joke, I know people who love em but I give everybody M$ mice in the office.

 

[Colin_b]

So the MS Vs Apple debate still boils down to how many buttons on a mouse after 20 years of debate

Colin.

 

[Spinal]

So the MS Vs Apple debate still boils down to how many buttons on a mouse after 20 years of debate

Colin.

Thats because the difference between the two are so minuscule that its down to "usability" and "user friendliness". As the friendliness of the OS is down to how well you know the operating system (hence my initial recomendation NOT to SWAP. If you were to get your first computer, get a mac. If you know how to use windows - stick with windows); its all about usability.

Keyboards? Other than the newer ones that ship with the newest iMacs and the old-old ones (the ones that shipped with the old coloured-G3 iMacs) I HATE the white keyboards you get. The keys are stiff and give you cramps if you are used to the softer feel of laptops, logitechs and anything else!

Mice? Other than the most loyal Macolytes, most people refuse to use the Mighty Mouse - we didn't want to spend the money to buy 600 other mice - so we disable all the buttons on the mighty mouse bar one and essentially turn it into a over-priced old apple mouse.

Screens? Well, those are built in! (and are reasonably nice - but then again, if you want a fast screen for gaming... oh wait, you can't play much more than chess on osx I'm mean.. )

Michele

 

[Dieselman]

Guys you're all wrong about the the Mighty Mouse. Apparently you are being too heavy handed, Mrs Dm informs me they are really good but you need a womans touch..