Rose Chap
MB Enthusiast
Absolute nightmare for anyone travelling. Apparently the only hand luggage allowed is essential medication only, in a clear plastic bag.
Your laptop, ipod, camera, book, spectacles case, etc etc etc will have to go in the hold.
And if that wasn't enough, every passenger is being searched by hand (matron).
I'm extremely glad I'm not travelling today.
Your laptop, ipod, camera, book, spectacles case, etc etc etc will have to go in the hold.
And if that wasn't enough, every passenger is being searched by hand (matron).
I'm extremely glad I'm not travelling today.
glojo
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
The sad thing is the alleged terrorists are again allegedly from an ethnic minority community. I think we should all accept that these insane individuals are simply terrorists, black, green, blue or pink they are simply terrorists. Hopefully all our communities will unite and assist the authorities in eradicating these insane individuals.
I wish the airports were allowed to 'profile' all the waiting passengers. This would very quickly help clear the huge hold-ups at the terminals. I am not going into the details of profiling but we can all understand hopefully what I am suggesting.
Thank goodness these idiots were caught before they acted.
John
I wish the airports were allowed to 'profile' all the waiting passengers. This would very quickly help clear the huge hold-ups at the terminals. I am not going into the details of profiling but we can all understand hopefully what I am suggesting.
Thank goodness these idiots were caught before they acted.
John
I have mixed feelings about the Government's reaction.
Yes they have a duty to protect the public, but to some extent putting in place such restrictive security means that the terrorists have been successful even without actually attacking anything.
Yes they have a duty to protect the public, but to some extent putting in place such restrictive security means that the terrorists have been successful even without actually attacking anything.
Rose Chap
MB Enthusiast
I know what you mean Bedouin. Remember just before we went to war in Iraq, the government stationed tanks at Heathrow and Gatwick.
Whilst a tank is going to do absolutely nothing to stop a terrorist, its definitely going to scare Joe Public, making him more agreeable to the deployment of military force to stop terrorists (so he was told).
This government and misleading / inconveniencing the public for their own aims go hand in hand.
Whilst a tank is going to do absolutely nothing to stop a terrorist, its definitely going to scare Joe Public, making him more agreeable to the deployment of military force to stop terrorists (so he was told).
This government and misleading / inconveniencing the public for their own aims go hand in hand.
glojo
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Rose Chap said:
Being devils advocat here and we will NEVER know the real reasons why the government went public, but I would suggest that it is possible a very serious threat was about to take place???
I would suggest the authorities MIGHT know most of the people involved???
If they quitely arrested those they know about and JUST ONE person slipped through, then you, me and everyone else would be screaming WHY weren't we told. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Just remember,
The security services have to be 100% successful to avoid a terrorist attack.
The terrorist needs just to be successful ONCE.
If this is another false alarm, then that is the cost we pay and I totally agree, the terrorist has already won without killing anyone (thank goodness)
If your watching the news you will see how many clearly, clearly innocent passengers are being delayed. Profiling would simply inconvienance a tiny, tiny percentage.
John
It's really a matter of "proportionality".stats007 said:I think that's rather a pessimistic view. Personally I was encouraged by their presence - and I'm sure if you were on a plane that blew up you may have wished for more 'inconvenience'.
We know that 10 people are going to be killed on our roads today - so if we immediately banned cars that would undoubtedly save lives - but I don't hear many people crying out for that.
Of course we don't know what "intelligence" the government have - but experiences of recent years should make us all very sceptical about that.
Hardly a sensible comparison. Cars have accidents - as do aircraft - security is there to prevent deliberate acts. An equivalent would be someone stealing a car, filling it with explosives and driving into a building - you can't stop that but you can put up road blocks if you want to protect something.
Just been talking to wifey (who works in the industry)....
Flights are not grounded - there are delays which may lead to cancellation due to internal logistics (crew going out of hours, no local replacements, etc).
The delays are due to the check-in and security processes - everything has to be checked in or validated as OK to carry-on. This takes longer at desks, and the baggage systems are having to handle up to 80% more baggage.
Everyone is sailing through passport and immigration controls - there's nothing left to go through the xray machines..... However, the focus is on liquids - even baby milk has to be tasted in front of an official before it's allowed through....
Personally I'd be happy to wait a bit.... the problem may be that one group has been caught after being watched for a while (as reported) but evidence may have been found that indicates another group also in play (which ties into the focus on certain types of substances, i.e. liquids, lotions, etc).
Flights are not grounded - there are delays which may lead to cancellation due to internal logistics (crew going out of hours, no local replacements, etc).
The delays are due to the check-in and security processes - everything has to be checked in or validated as OK to carry-on. This takes longer at desks, and the baggage systems are having to handle up to 80% more baggage.
Everyone is sailing through passport and immigration controls - there's nothing left to go through the xray machines..... However, the focus is on liquids - even baby milk has to be tasted in front of an official before it's allowed through....
Personally I'd be happy to wait a bit.... the problem may be that one group has been caught after being watched for a while (as reported) but evidence may have been found that indicates another group also in play (which ties into the focus on certain types of substances, i.e. liquids, lotions, etc).
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glojo said:
How is it so easy to spot those that are clearly, clearly innocent?
I agree - but as was pointed out this morning it's illegal. 'Political correctness' and 'human rights' rear their ugly heads again.glojo said:
So families with young children going to the Costa Brava and pensioners heading out to Madeira get the same blanket treatment. If you're flying to Jersey, Isle of Man or Stornoway - tough.
Years ago, when I was gainfully employed, I instigated an 'unofficial' 'profiling of applicants by ethnicity'. Approx 10% of all applications ('000s) were faudulent and of these, around 85% 'fell within profile'.
After a year or so, word got out and we were asked to desist despite saving £millions. Yes, fraud and bad debt spiralled upwards.
Never mind PC and HR etc - just fact!
mobeyone
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My main concern is that we have at present airports which are packed with families ready to fly out and my priority would be is to get them home safely and quickly once they have been checked.
Just imagine if the liquid was a cover for something more sinister? and that this "event" played into the hands of an extremist?
Its a very very difficult situation to be in at the moment, I hope the evidence is clear and transparent and that those who have been caught have the full wieght of the law thrown against them.
I agree to a certain degree with profiling, but have we got it right yet? Imagine if we again have caught the wrong people and the clowns that are doing this are still out there?
I would like to add that I do find it a coincedence that again we have a terror threat on the back of an announcement from the goverment on a change in our day to day living and that we are seeing an improvement in homeland security with "Dr" Reid at the healm.
Just imagine if the liquid was a cover for something more sinister? and that this "event" played into the hands of an extremist?
Its a very very difficult situation to be in at the moment, I hope the evidence is clear and transparent and that those who have been caught have the full wieght of the law thrown against them.
I agree to a certain degree with profiling, but have we got it right yet? Imagine if we again have caught the wrong people and the clowns that are doing this are still out there?
I would like to add that I do find it a coincedence that again we have a terror threat on the back of an announcement from the goverment on a change in our day to day living and that we are seeing an improvement in homeland security with "Dr" Reid at the healm.
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I have my doubts over this particular event, why are all airlines affected the same. The so called information was primarily airflights from UK to US so why would they enforce the strict searches on all flights? But I have said before, I am a cynic, I am also a fatalist but I don't tempt fate
glojo
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Tan said:
Hi Tan,
I am NOT going down that avenue, at times common sense is something that tends to go out the window and we go down the obnoxious politically correct route that causes these huge problems.
Mobeyone has asked a very interesting question and yes it is possible that there are plotters out there somewhere. Only a few months ago a garage in Ireland was searched and bomb making material seized.
This major incident is causing horrendous snowballing effects simply because of the huge back log being created at Heathrow and now Gatwick (amongst others) aircraft simply cannot get parking spots
John
saorbust
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Tan said:
Very good question. If its so easy then arguably we'd never have to worry, because the reverse would be true and the guilty would always be caught.
Rather like profiling - it relies on a pre-determined / known set of criteria which would lead to a conclusion of reasonable probablilty. ie, a high degree of confidence.
What happens when people change habbits, or a new faction emerges etc etc ?
Frankly I'd rather be a tad delayed, and be safe, than rush through and have faith in a 'scientific reason / deduction' technique.
