Luton Airport car park fire

[ChipChop]

Puzzled by your last post (above) given that your previous post (below) suggested that you couldn’t see the relevance to the other topics I l suggested are interwoven. But then your last post (above) appears as if you can see the relevance, no?

The high value components used in EV manufacture are majority Chinese made. That is the link. China should be problematic for all Westerners who enjoy living in a democracy. The PRC is a country ideologically opposed to democractic principles.

That’s good because when I wrote it I didn’t intend the comment regarding lizards to be taken seriously. It was a light hearted quip in an otherwise serious post about serious topics.


Don’t you think that the use of word “conspiracy” has an implied negative tone though?

Definitely a list of topics as written, but I am cool if you see them as all being conspiracies. Some of them are conspiracy theories by the actual definition though.

Lizards. A joke at someone elses expense. A successful writer who lives on the Isle of Wight i believe.

Implied negative tone indeed. Use of pejorative. Loss of argument.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The high value components used in EV manufacture are majority Chinese made.

You’ve gone from being puzzled to explaining to me, in a few posts. You don’t need to explain, it was me that mentioned EVs and Chinese manufacturing in a list of interwoven (or “linked” if you prefer) topics (or “conspiracies” if you prefer).

There are high value (and high volume) components in umpteen things, the majority Chinese made. Those components are not unique - the same/similar components are used in umpteen other things, not just EVs and not just cars - and will only account for a small proportion of total Chinese manufacturing capability, unless “the PRC” decide to stop manufacturing everything else. They won’t though, that would be weird.

 

[ChipChop]

You’ve gone from being puzzled to explaining to me, in a few posts. You don’t need to explain, it was me that mentioned EVs and Chinese manufacturing in a list of interwoven (or “linked” if you prefer) topics (or “conspiracies” if you prefer).

There are high value (and high volume) components in umpteen things, the majority Chinese made. Those components are not unique - the same/similar components are used in umpteen other things, not just EVs and not just cars - and will only account for a small proportion of total Chinese manufacturing capability, unless “the PRC” decide to stop manufacturing everything else. They won’t though, that would be weird.

Thats fine we will see how Chinas manufacturing machine copes when Israel bombs Irans oil fields.

 

[Wolfie1]

I am another forum 1 for rc cars and obviously there is americans on it, anyway there was a guy who had a hobbywing speed controller and combo in his car (which is 1 of the best makes) anyway there was a guy that bought his setup from aliexpress and was having some problems setting it up another member had a long lengthy post slating him for buying “chinese crap” and should have bought it in the usa as the usa ones are real and the aliexpress 1 was a cheap fake, it was quite funny as others posted up explaining that hobbywing is a chinese company, they are made in china and the reason they are more expensive bought in the usa as everyone adds there little bit on. So not all chinese manufacturing is bad in any way at all (the guy did get his setup working as he had some settings wrong) i have a few of these and they really are fantastic

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

‘S Thats fine we will see how Chinas manufacturing machine copes when Israel bombs Irans oil fields.

Let’s hope that if that does happen then the consequences for Israel, Iran, China’s manufacturing machine and the rest of the world are minimised.

If the consequences are such that the Chinese manufacturing machine can’t cope then the whole world has a big problem.

 

[190]

What pray is an extreme anti-EV narrative?

I believe the extreme negativity about EV's is less to do with their actual merits and more to do with the fact that people feel they are being forced on us by the government. It's a natural reaction that we don't like being told what to do and our negative responses are then exaggerated.

Had the roll out of EV's been left to market forces there would have been much less fuss because people would have felt they had a free choice. It's entirely possible that it would have placed EV's in a better light than they currently are and the take up of EV's would have been higher than has been achieved by clumsy political enforcement.

Ditto for heat pumps. Telling people they must have one is the kiss of death although they also lack the degree of merit that EV's have.

 

[BTB 500]

I am another forum 1 for rc cars and obviously there is americans on it, anyway there was a guy who had a hobbywing speed controller and combo in his car (which is 1 of the best makes) anyway there was a guy that bought his setup from aliexpress and was having some problems setting it up another member had a long lengthy post slating him for buying “chinese crap” and should have bought it in the usa as the usa ones are real and the aliexpress 1 was a cheap fake, it was quite funny as others posted up explaining that hobbywing is a chinese company, they are made in china and the reason they are more expensive bought in the usa as everyone adds there little bit on. So not all chinese manufacturing is bad in any way at all (the guy did get his setup working as he had some settings wrong) i have a few of these and they really are fantastic

Almost all R/C stuff is made in China. Some big name US companies sell generic chargers/ESCs/servos/etc. domestically for much higher prices under their own brand name ... typically the difference is just the sticker on the front and/or having the case moulded in a different colour. There's a very strong 'buy American' ethos in the US so these companies make good money from this approach. For example:

'American' Hitec X4 Pro charger:


Chinese SkyRC Q200 charger:


The Hitec one actually says 'made in China' on the back. Guess whose factory it comes out of?!

 

[TC350]

I believe the extreme negativity about EV's is less to do with their actual merits and more to do with the fact that people feel they are being forced on us by the government. It's a natural reaction that we don't like being told what to do and our negative responses are then exaggerated.

Had the roll out of EV's been left to market forces there would have been much less fuss because people would have felt they had a free choice. It's entirely possible that it would have placed EV's in a better light than they currently are and the take up of EV's would have been higher than has been achieved by clumsy political enforcement.

As a chartered electrical and electronics engineer, I’m in possession of a bit of technical knowledge on the subject of EVs. My political knowledge is less well established, but I still feel justified in responding to your opinion. It’s bollox.

If people feel that EVs are being forced on us by government, we must be an even weaker animal than I previously feared. I for one, and I hope one of very many, have felt absolutely no pressure whatsoever to go out and spend my children’s inheritance on an EV. I like the idea and I could well end up buying one, but in no way am I being forced to buy one. Not by government or by anyone else.

But there appear to be a lot of people who are so weak and so open to persuasion, so lacking in personal thought, that they believe their every move is dictated by government. No wonder there’s so much confusion and argument over transvestites: people need to grow a pair.

It’s deja vu with all the pussies claiming to have been forced by government to buy diesels. No you weren’t. You had a free choice. Just as you have a free choice as to whether you buy an EV. It’s no more than a decision based on your personal needs, personal finances and personal beliefs.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

As a chartered electrical and electronics engineer, I’m in possession of a bit of technical knowledge on the subject of EVs. My political knowledge is less well established, but I still feel justified in responding to your opinion. It’s bollox.

If people feel that EVs are being forced on us by government, we must be an even weaker animal than I previously feared. I for one, and I hope one of very many, have felt absolutely no pressure whatsoever to go out and spend my children’s inheritance on an EV. I like the idea and I could well end up buying one, but in no way am I being forced to buy one. Not by government or by anyone else.

But there appear to be a lot of people who are so weak and so open to persuasion, so lacking in personal thought, that they believe their every move is dictated by government. No wonder there’s so much confusion and argument over transvestites: people need to grow a pair.

It’s deja vu with all the pussies claiming to have been forced by government to buy diesels. No you weren’t. You had a free choice. Just as you have a free choice as to whether you buy an EV. It’s no more than a decision based on your personal needs, personal finances and personal beliefs.

Very well said. Post of the year.

I’ve asked several times in various thread how we are being forced to buy EV’s and i can’t ever recall an answer, not even a poor one. If anyone can provide a good answer, then please do.

We had something 15 years notice that the sale of brand new cars with an ICE engine would be phased out by 2035, and 10 years notice for cars without hybrid assistance.

Ironically the vast majority of those people who are most vocal about feeling forced don’t buy brand new cars anyway - and often older cars at that - and so they are even further from being forced.

From my own perspective, nobody has even even suggested that I might possibly switch to EV, never mind ask me. Does that make me the exception, or is the same true for everyone else?

 

[ALFAitalia]

......and more to do with the fact that people feel they are being forced on us by the government.

No ones forcing me.....I don't want one even though i have no issues with them at all and can see the benefits.....and wont ever buy one (hopefully)......and as it stands at the moment there will be nothing stopping me, or anyone else from doing just that. Current predictions say that no more than about 25 to 30 of cars will be EV by 2035.....so there will be ICE and being driven and sold for decades yet. Its only if you are the sort that like to depreciate their money on brand new cars that you will have an issue after 2035. So, as it stands (and laws may change of course) I don't see anyone being forced into anything. As long as I can find (and afford to run!) an ICE for the next 25 years or so (hopefully) that will be my driving time pretty much done.

 

[Bellow]

As a chartered electrical and electronics engineer, I’m in possession of a bit of technical knowledge on the subject of EVs. My political knowledge is less well established, but I still feel justified in responding to your opinion. It’s bollox.

If people feel that EVs are being forced on us by government, we must be an even weaker animal than I previously feared. I for one, and I hope one of very many, have felt absolutely no pressure whatsoever to go out and spend my children’s inheritance on an EV. I like the idea and I could well end up buying one, but in no way am I being forced to buy one. Not by government or by anyone else.

But there appear to be a lot of people who are so weak and so open to persuasion, so lacking in personal thought, that they believe their every move is dictated by government. No wonder there’s so much confusion and argument over transvestites: people need to grow a pair.

How very true. I will never be forced to buy an EV. I will however not be permitted to buy anything but an EV. If that's your idea of freedom...

It’s deja vu with all the pussies claiming to have been forced by government to buy diesels. No you weren’t. You had a free choice. Just as you have a free choice as to whether you buy an EV. It’s no more than a decision based on your personal needs, personal finances and personal beliefs.

Your observation that diesels were bought by choice is correct. It serves as a poor analogy however as when diesels were chosen, other choices were permitted - petrol, EV even.

 

[ALFAitalia]

I will however not be permitted to buy anything but an EV. If that's your idea of freedom...

....as said before it only applies to new cars......you will be "permitted" to buy ICE in used form as long as you can find/afford them as things stand.

 

[Bellow]

....as said before it only applies to new cars......you will be "permitted" to buy ICE in used form as long as you can find/afford them as things stand.

New or used - the only difference is timescale. Eventually as ICE disappears due to natural wastage, EV (new and used) will be all that is available. That, is not choice.
Maybe when in 2026 F1 using synthetic fuels demonstrates just how useful liquid fuels are when it continues to race in a manner that electrified race cars cannot, some common sense may prevail.

 

[TC350]

New or used - the only difference is timescale. Eventually as ICE disappears due to natural wastage, EV (new and used) will be all that is available. That, is not choice.
Maybe when in 2026 F1 using synthetic fuels demonstrates just how useful liquid fuels are when it continues to race in a manner that electrified race cars cannot, some common sense may prevail.

It's good to see that even you are now doubting your crystal ball that's telling you we'll have no more choice in the future. I'm not equipped with a crystal ball, of any effectiveness, so I can only base my assertion regarding choice on what we have now and what we've had in the past.

So my diesel buying analogy IS perfectly valid. It was based on known factors at the time, just as is the current choice between EV and ICE. The only limitations to those choices were and are the result of decisions by manufacturers and suppliers. But it's still a choice, in the same way that you have a choice from the à la carte menu at your favourite restaurant - it doesn't include every possible option but you still get to choose what you want.

 

[Bellow]

It's good to see that even you are now doubting your crystal ball that's telling you we'll have no more choice in the future. I'm not equipped with a crystal ball, of any effectiveness, so I can only base my assertion regarding choice on what we have now and what we've had in the past.

I didn't say it would come to pass - only that the stupidity of our current trajectory will be exposed to a greater extent

So my diesel buying analogy IS perfectly valid. It was based on known factors at the time, just as is the current choice between EV and ICE. The only limitations to those choices were and are the result of decisions by manufacturers and suppliers. But it's still a choice, in the same way that you have a choice from the à la carte menu at your favourite restaurant - it doesn't include every possible option but you still get to choose what you want.

Bollox. ICE will be withdrawn. From that point the choice is between EV and nothing. Take it or leave it. If leaving it isn't an option (modern life doesn't allow for that) then EV is by default the forced choice. That word force again. For good reason.

 

[ALFAitalia]

New or used - the only difference is timescale. Eventually as ICE disappears due to natural wastage, EV (new and used) will be all that is available. That, is not choice.
Maybe when in 2026 F1 using synthetic fuels demonstrates just how useful liquid fuels are when it continues to race in a manner that electrified race cars cannot, some common sense may prevail.

Synthetic fuel in the sort of quantity required? and all the while still pushing out pollution and carbon in both making and using?.....no chance....at least not in our lifetimes.

As an aside not I quite enjoy Formula E........but them I guess it would take something really special to be more boring to watch than F1.

 

[Bellow]

Synthetic fuel in the sort of quantity required? and all the while still pushing out pollution and carbon in both making and using?....

In the early days of ICE petrol was bought from chemists. Production ramped up with demand. It's a question of will. But a society that shows no interest in developing a new technology (battery development has stalled) is one doomed to fail - deservedly so.

.no chance....at least not in our lifetimes.

The whole point of decarbonisation is for the survivability of future generations. If we only had to consider our own lifetime we could carry on polluting as we have for the previous century.

 

[TC350]

I didn't say it would come to pass - only that the stupidity of our current trajectory will be exposed to a greater extent

Bollox. ICE will be withdrawn. From that point the choice is between EV and nothing. Take it or leave it. If leaving it isn't an option (modern life doesn't allow for that) then EV is by default the forced choice. That word force again. For good reason.

There you go with your magic crystal ball again. Is it never wrong? If it really is that good, please ask it for next week's lottery winning numbers.

 

[Bellow]

There you go with your magic crystal ball again. Is it never wrong? If it really is that good, please ask it for next week's lottery winning numbers.

Oh, the pending ban of ICE sales is only a figment in my crystal ball then - not legislation at all. Wow!

 

[ALFAitalia]

(battery development has stalled)

LOL......what BS. How about Toyotas and Teslas new one that could charge in about 5 minutes with the right current and give a better range. Or the British company Nyobolt that's offering much the same.

Electric car battery charges in under five minutes in track test

The charging time is much quicker than even the fastest-charging batteries currently on the market.

www.bbc.co.uk

​

And then theres:

• Solid-state batteries
  These batteries use solid materials instead of liquid electrolytes, which can improve range and charging speed. They may also be safer because they reduce the risk of fire.
  
  
  
• Sodium-ion batteries
  These batteries use sodium instead of lithium, which is more cost-effective and sustainable. They are being used in urban EVs and stationary storage.
  
  
  
• Lithium-sulfur batteries
  These batteries use a sulfur-containing positive cathode and lithium negative anode. They could be cheaper and have a greater range than current lithium-ion batteries.
  
  
  
• Lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries
  These batteries use iron instead of nickel and cobalt in the cathode.
  
  
  
• Graphene batteries
  These batteries could have a range of 500 miles and recharge in minutes.
  
  
  
• Aluminum-air batteries
  These batteries use oxygen from the air to fill the cathode, making them lighter than lithium-ion batteries.
  
  
  
• TankTwo String Cell batteries
  These batteries contain small, independent cells that can be quickly recharged at a service station.
  
  
  
• Flowless zinc-bromine batteries (FLZBBs)
  These batteries use non-flammable electrolytes, making them an alternative to lithium-ion batteries.
  
  

Other developments in EV battery technology include fast charging, battery longevity, recycling, and wireless charging.