Bought used a170 and a complete gearbox failure next day

[dtr]

I just bought a used 2000 Mercedes A170 CDI with a manual 5-speed gearbox from a trade seller in London - E£J Quality used cars ltd. It seemed to be very sharp and responsive, and the drive back to Bristol was smooth. There was some minimal noise from the car internals, but it didn't appear to be anything alarming. Today, I have driven the car a lot in Bristol, up a few steep hills in Redland, M32 and so on. Towards the end of the day the car started going a lot slower, there was more squeaking noise and less of the 'usual noise'. The car was fine in neutral. Finally, the car had very rough rattling, and grinding noise when in gear. The 3rd is completely gone (bad jerking and grinding with little pull), while the 1st, 2nd and 4th go on very low revs and bad noise. 5th seems better but I can't get there any more. A quick check in Mr Clutch identified faulty gearbox.
The seller refused to take it back and blamed me instead for killing it (which is impossible according to the garage).

The trading standards suggested I write a letter, then wait, then go to court.

What are my chances? What would people do here in a similar situation? Repair and sue for that, or just leave it and sue?

If I get a second chance shall I get Focus C-Max diesel instead? I.e. Am I really asking for a disaster by buying a used 10 year old A-series merc?

Is it even possible to find a reliable 7-10 year old used car?

 

[kwakdonut]

Speak to the seller first (if you haven't already) - give them a chance to put this right. Either a repalcement gearbox or refund.

Write them a letter - be firm and fair, giving them 14 days to sort. Trading Standards (Consumer Advice) can give you guidance on what to write and which bits of the Sale of Goods Act to use.

The car should be fit for purpose, which it blatantly isn't.

Did you not get a (short) warranty when you bought the vehicle?

You'll have to persevere - I got a result when I found out my car had been clocked, some 11 months after I bought it, as the seller offered me a compensation payment.

Any car can be unreliable, even 1/2 year old cars. Obviously as they get older, the chances they will become more unreliable increase but most cars of that age should be fine although I wouldnt expect everything to work or there to be no rust or something minor to fix. But a gearbox failure? A rare but not wholly uncommon.

You bought the car from a trader and therefore have more rights than if you bought from a private seller!

 

[Vlad]

Whats the mileage on the car and how much did you pay and I assume that you got an invoice with the car?

Was the Trade seller working from home or did you buy it from a used car lot/premises?

The upshot of all of this is that the guy needs to give you your money back or get it fixed....if he had any sense he would give you your money back and unwind the deal.

If he's a dodgy trade seller, then send a registered letter to him stating that you want a refund and that if this is not forthcoming that you will be getting Trading Standards onto the case....try and find the local Trading Standards office local to him and have a word with them now and explain your problem....you may find that they already have a file on him.

If he does not respond to your letter then get Trading Standards to handle your case.....it will be a slow process though!!

 

[jaymanek]

You have 6 months cover by law... write a letter, otherwise go to court.

 

[neilrr]

Isn't it usually the automatic A Class cars that die from tranny failure?

 

[kwakdonut]

If you bought the car using the Internet (Auto Trader, E-Bay, Pistonheads etc) your local Trading Standards office will deal with this and liaise with the TS office nearest the dealer. Most dealers are known to TS, this doesn't necessarily make them a bad dealer btw, but can give the dealer a scare!

The guy who I bought my car off is known to his local TS and I was told by my local TS that this doesn't mean they are a known problem!

The Sale of Goods Act will be what you will refer to. The goods have to be of 'merchantable quality' and 'fit for purpose'. As I said before, the car obviously is not!

 

[kwakdonut]

You have 6 months cover by law... write a letter, otherwise go to court.

Is that correct Jay? I know you're a dealer so probably have a much better knowledge of this than me but I have had problems finding info regarding warranties from trade sellers/home dealers.

You haven't got a link to something definate per chance?

 

[jonnyboy]

If it was internet advertised can you "grab" the advert before it is deleted with a screen capture or the likes? Would help you prove it saying "good condition" or whatever and more importantly would help refute any suggestion from the trade seller that it was advertised as "trade sale/sold as seen/faulty" etc.

 

[dtr]

Thank you for replies.

The car has done just 92900 miles which is very average. It is 5-speed manual and it could be a driving shaft failure that destroyed it according to one garage. Does it make sense? The best quote so far is 1.8k which is just under what I have paid, thinking it was fit for purpose. I bet it was meant to fail half a year later, but St. Michaels hill in Bristol accelerated things a little.

I have saved a website, and PDF'ed it. It's now well gone.

I am going to claim trough HSBC visa dept, and I am sending him a letter tomorrow. Bristol Trading standards are aware of it. I will just have to wait, and probably take it back eventually.

Presuming it all turns out good - and that is incredibly optimistic at the moment - I still need a decent economic (=diesel?) MPV-like car as I am quite tall. A170 just seemed too perfect for me which is why I got in so easily. Please advise what next car I should be looking for. I drive quite a lot in town and on motorways, roughly 10-15k miles pa. Affordable service is a must.

 

[jonnyboy]

Have you looked for a s/h gearbox? it won't cost £1800........

 

[The _Don]

You bought the vehicle from a dealer

Your consumer rights when you buy a vehicle from a dealer

If you bought the vehicle from a dealer, you will have certain rights under consumer law.
A secondhand vehicle must match its description, be fit for its purpose, and be of satisfactory quality. However, the standard for meeting the requirement that the vehicle is of satisfactory quality will be lower because it is secondhand. A secondhand vehicle should be in reasonable condition and work properly. When deciding whether a secondhand vehicle is in reasonable condition it is important to consider the vehicle’s age and make, the past history of the vehicle and how much you paid for it.
If a secondhand vehicle needs more extensive repairs than seemed necessary at the time it was bought, this does not necessarily mean that the vehicle is not of satisfactory quality. A secondhand vehicle can be of satisfactory quality if it is in a useable condition, even if it is not perfect.
If the vehicle develops a problem soon after you bought it, you may have a right to return the vehicle to the dealer and get your money back. This would probably need to be within about three to four weeks at the most of buying the vehicle. The problem would need to be fairly major, and you would need to take into account the age, mileage and price of the vehicle when deciding whether it is reasonable to take it back.
You must stop using the vehicle at once and contact the dealer. If you traded-in a vehicle, you are entitled to have it returned if it is still available, or to have the full value allowed on it, if it has been disposed of. If you have left it too late to claim a refund, or you don't want one, you may be entitled to ask for a repair or replacement. The fault must have been there when you bought the vehicle. If you do agree for a major fault to be repaired and the repair turns out to be unsatisfactory, it's not too late to ask for your money back.
If the dealer won't agree to put the problem right, you can take legal action up to six years from the date you bought the vehicle (five years in Scotland). However, it is probably unrealistic to take legal action for a fault in a secondhand vehicle, especially an older vehicle, once you have been using it for a reasonable length of time.
If you take the vehicle back within six months of buying it, the dealer should accept that there was a problem when the vehicle was sold and offer to repair or replace it. If the dealer doesn't accept that there was a problem when the vehicle was sold, they will have to prove this.
After six months, it will be up to you to prove that there was a major problem with the vehicle when it was sold. You will have to provide evidence of this so it may help to get an independent report which could establish the condition of the vehicle when it was sold.
If the dealer agrees to repair the vehicle, the repairs have to be carried out within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to you. The dealer must pay the costs of the repairs. If the repair has taken a long time, you may be able to use a service loan car or claim compensation, for example, for the cost of hiring a vehicle. If the dealer refuses to repair the vehicle, you are entitled to get it repaired elsewhere and claim back the cost from the dealer. If the vehicle can't be repaired or replaced or this is considered too expensive, taking into account the type of fault, you may have the right to get some or all of your money back. You will have to negotiate with the dealer to decide on what would be a reasonable amount. In deciding what is reasonable, you will need to take into account how much use you have had out of the vehicle.
For more information about your rights when you buy goods, including secondhand goods, see Buying goods - your rights.
A Citizens Advice Bureau can help you negotiate with a dealer if something is wrong with your vehicle. To search for details of your local CAB, including those that give advice by e-mail, click on

nearest CAB.
There are two circumstances in which you may not have a right to complain to the dealer. These are where:

• the dealer specifically drew the vehicle’s defects to your attention before you bought it. You may still be able to make a complaint if, for example, the dealer said the clutch was stiff when in fact it was worn through. If the dealer did not point out the full extent of the defects, they are still liable for those they missed. However, the dealer does not have to say anything about the vehicle’s condition at all
• you inspected the vehicle before you bought it and should have noticed the defects. However, if you didn't notice the defects, you could try arguing that you examined the vehicle as a layperson and could not be expected to spot mechanical or structural defects.

In England and Wales, for more information about what action you can take if you have a problem with a second hand vehicle, see Second hand cars in Consumer Fact Sheets.

 

[dtr]

Have you looked for a s/h gearbox? it won't cost £1800........

I could probably find one - but how much life will be left in it? Which gearbox models fit A170 CDI diesel? The worst part is fitting it - at least £500-600, unless I could find a cheap and reliable mechanic. They also insist on new clutch and many other small items... Please educate me.

 

[gunning]

we just sold an a class that my sister drove since she was 17 its was an A170 cdi and when we sold it she had put 60,000 mile on the clock 3 years and say 4 months, left us with 144k and we were that confident it would keep going we sold it to a freind! And its still going strong. Her gearbox went at 110,000 refurbed it and new clutch for £600

In terms of advise on how to go back to the seller, listen to kwakdonut! He is right in his first post. I did this too on a mini i bought (head gasket went in the first day) and got the repair costs back on it.

 

[dtr]

Her gearbox went at 110,000 refurbed it and new clutch for £600

It sounds like a very reasonable price.
Where did you get it done? Did you do it yourself, or use a garage?

 

[gunning]

usually we do our own work but its a hard job and we couldnt be assed, so they fitted it. We used st austell transmissions but it had to go the their plymouth branch due to they didnt have enough equipment or the right tools down here. Not bad at all in my opinion

 

[dtr]

usually we do our own work but its a hard job and we couldnt be assed, so they fitted it. We used st austell transmissions but it had to go the their plymouth branch due to they didnt have enough equipment or the right tools down here. Not bad at all in my opinion

Thanks I've emailed them for a quote. Hopefully, it will be closer to 600 rather than 1800.

 

[Mike Walker]

No wish to seem like a sm***t a**e but I nearly bought a similar car for our daughter when she returned from South America. Looked on Honest John Website - Daily Telegraph motoring - and it said DO NOT GO NEAR these cars if I remember correctly. Hope you get the problem sorted soonest.

 

[A140driver]

Sorry to hear about your car's misfortune. You are entitled to reject the car as not fit for purpose, as has already been described. To be honest, A170 CDIs do seem to be less reliable than the petrol A-classes. Have you considered a petrol one on LPG?

 

[pdd]

A gearbox failure within 24 hours is pretty clear cut refund/repair however cheap the car.

However, £1800 as a dealer purchase is rock bottom banger motoring these days. Remember that last year the Government viewed any car under £2000 only fit for scrap.

You'll get a bit more for your money going private (but no comeback) but cheap motoring on anything remotely economical is no where near as cheap as it used to be these days. If you want a 15mpg V8 you'll be able to find something nice sub-£2k.....want something which does 40mpg and the choice of anything decent and reliable under £2k isn't great.

 

[Smiley]

get something old Japanese eg old Civic or Corolla from a genuine private seller that you can tell has looked after the car. At this price level you are better off buying privately - you can see who has owned the car before and suss them out - there are some genuine and very honest sellers out there. And they are not hard to identify once you have spent a few minutes with them and seen where they live / are they hard up for a few quid or are they comfortable enough not to have to pass on a lemon to someone else.