C Class buying advice and opinions

[RolandK]

I've been looking at the many variations of the C Class around 2008-2010 as I'm looking to shortlist one for my next daily driver. Having waded through the many petrol and diesel options I think I've got a handle on what I want! First preference would be for an estate, secondly a saloon. I've narrowed it down to the C250 engine and 7 speed auto. In either petrol or diesel form this gives me the performance I'm looking for. and it seems identical between those two options. I've got a bit of a mental block over buying a diesel though despite the better fuel consumption and lower tax bands. Just not sure what our learned government might dish out in the future to punish the anti social drivers of these evil machines!! That makes me lean (possibly wrongly?) towards petrol. Looking for a car sub 70k miles and budget around 9k. These cars seem to be fairly trouble free from what I read but would welcome comments from owners. One possible issue I've seen mentioned on here is rear subframe corrosion. How easy is this to check for in situ? Would you expect it to appear as a MOT advisory? Seems the cost of a new subframe is quite reasonable but fitting costs crippling!!?
Lots of questions.....sorry!
Cheers

 

[Gazwould]

Yes subframe first and foremost , seems a snowballing weekly feature now almost unheard of when I purchased just a few years ago .

Lots of situations when it has cracked despite it not being flagged the previous year.

 

[RolandK]

So if I find the right car ideally I need to get it inspected before buying. In practice it's getting the dealer to agree to let me do that! Sounds like a bit of a mine field!
Thanks for the input

 

[Chrishazle]

Can you get a 2008-10 C Class (204 model) with the 7 speed box? I thought that only came in with the MY2011 facelift - I have a 2008 S204 C220Cdi and it has the 5 speed box! If you find one with the 7 speed box, check that the prescribed ATF/Filter change at 37.5k miles/5 years has been done - does not apply to the 5 speed box which MB claim is sealed for life (BS!!), had a massive row with the local MB supplying dealer about this when I bought the car, had the ATF/filter (ncluding TC) changed at 100k as recommended by my local specalist indie).

What sort of mileage/use are you expecting? The 250Cdi is the same engine as the 220Cdi with a few tweaks, my 220 has more than adequate performance, it also does not have the "fun" of Adblue to contend with. Most of our use is short runs of 10 miles or less, with occasional longer or much longer runs, and engine wise it's been (touch wood) problem free since we bought it at 64k miles in 2012. It now has 100k+ on it, we love it and have no intention of changing it - but we have loads of toys - full leather, Comand NTG4, heated seats, Linguatronic(which I never use!), electric tailgate.

 

[RolandK]

Thanks Chrishazle
I could well be wrong about the 7 speed auto. Agree on the so called sealed for life boxes. How is 'life' defined? In the past I've always had such boxes serviced despite manufacturer's recommendations. I would expect 4000 to 5000 a year. Mainly local runs and a few longer trips per month. Glad your car has been good to you and long may it continue. Are you saying the 250Cdi engine needs Adblue but the 220Cdi doesn't? I need to look up what the Command NTG4 does!
Cheers

 

[markjay]

The pre-facelift 6-Cyl C350 CDI (Diesel) and C350 CGI (petrol) both had the 7G box.

 

[Chrishazle]

Part of my row about the ATF change with the main dealer (who also supplied the car new to its first owner) was that my owners manual specifies an ATF change at 37.5k miles (car registered July 2008), service manager was adamant that that only applied to the 7G box, my car has the 5G.

 

[Petrol Pete]

So if I find the right car ideally I need to get it inspected before buying. In practice it's getting the dealer to agree to let me do that! Sounds like a bit of a mine field!
Thanks for the input

Do not even think of buying a W204 C class without a thorough PROPER inspection of the rear sub frame no matter how shiny the car is , what the service history is or even if the ink on the MOT certificate is still wet. If the seller refuses the inspection walk away.

If you search on this forum and elsewhere it does seem to be a random failure that (so far) has not been pinned down to a particular time frame of build. So a visual inspection is the only way to escape an expensive repair bill. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

[colinallcars]

Do not even think of buying a W204 C class without a thorough PROPER inspection of the rear sub frame no matter how shiny the car is , what the service history is or even if the ink on the MOT certificate is still wet. If the seller refuses the inspection walk away.

If you search on this forum and elsewhere it does seem to be a random failure that (so far) has not been pinned down to a particular time frame of build. So a visual inspection is the only way to escape an expensive repair bill. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Is a visual inspection sufficient? There seem to be many instances of it not being picked up on in MoTs, I suspect a good, firm poke with a screwdriver is required.

 

[markjay]

Given that the M271 engine can be problematic (timing gear), the 4-cyl petrol variants are best avoided (unless opting for mid-2012 or later cars, with the newer M274 engine).

So this leaves the C200 CDI, C220 CDI, C350 CDI, and C350 CGI.

 

[Petrol Pete]

My friend who has two MOT garages recently scrapped a perfectly nice W203 because a cursory check spotted the rot (obviously too far gone by then) it was the first time he saw this particular car but his guess was it was probably on its way out at the last MOT.

look at many photos of the problem as you can on line and have an inspection done based on them . That is exactly the advice I gave to my nephew who just 2 weeks ago bought a 100K+mile W203 that upon inspection had no issues with it's rear sub frame.

 

[RolandK]

Many thanks for all the input.
In the meantime I've been to see an
E Class E220 estate which was virtually mint despite 83k on the clock. I approached the subject of subframe inspection with the dealer but no way was he happy for me to do that assuring me it was just MOT'd and was fine. He was happy with me buying the car, getting it inspected and if any issues were found we'd might sort something out then! What with the subframe issue and the mention of engine issues I'm thinking these cars might not be the right choice for some relaxing trouble free retirement motoring!
Cheers

 

[Smiley]

Sorry to say if you are looking for trouble free motoring then you're going to be disappointed with a diesel mercedes. They're good cars, nice to drive and are not unreliable - but they are a long way from trouble free. Trouble free cars are Japanese and petrol.

 

[RolandK]

Very nicely summed up! You just descibed my ancient Honda CRV!
Cheers

 

[HITECH]

Do not even think of buying a W204 C class without a thorough PROPER inspection of the rear sub frame no matter how shiny the car is , what the service history is or even if the ink on the MOT certificate is still wet. If the seller refuses the inspection walk away.

If you search on this forum and elsewhere it does seem to be a random failure that (so far) has not been pinned down to a particular time frame of build. So a visual inspection is the only way to escape an expensive repair bill. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Its not the only failure. Ide steer clear of any mercedes c class of that age. You will be buying a moneypit with Problem after Problem. Do more research W04 and you will find out.

 

[markjay]

A pre-facelift W204 Diesel (pre-EU6, and NO BlueTec), as well as the petrol V6 (rare), should be fine, as long as the subframe is in good nick.

MB cars are generally OK for reliability, though they obviously not on the same level as Toyota or Kia etc.

 

[Tonygw]

If you do your checks then these are no more unreliable than any other car of that age, even the Japanese cars, I had a honda Accord petrol supposedly one of the most reliable cars there is.. let me tell you it wasn't.. I got rid in the end as the bills just mounted up month on month. Was a nice car though.

Yes definitely check the rear subframe, but remember, there are literally thousands of c class on the road, and only a small percentage seem to have suffered the subframe issue. Its only the problems that get reported not the owners who have no issues at all.

The om651 C250cdi is a fine engine. it sufferers water pump failure, and timing chain rattle, which is not a big of a job as you might think. One bit of advice though is find a good recommended merc specialist to look after her.
They need to have proper STAR diagnosis software to find any issues you may face.

The C250 does fly and has plenty of poke, but drive both C220 and C250 and see what you think. I wouldn't worry about buying diesel either. Petrol is fine if you prefer but the M271 does have a timing chain consumption problem so best avoided..as that is thousands to fix compare to the few hundred on the OM651 diesel's.

 

[markjay]

If you do your checks then these are no more unreliable than any other car of that age, even the Japanese cars, I had a honda Accord petrol supposedly one of the most reliable cars there is.. let me tell you it wasn't.. I got rid in the end as the bills just mounted up month on month. Was a nice car though.

I look at the 'reliability' factor from the perspective of 'common issues'. Any car can suffer component failure. But if you look at the list of things that went wrong with the W203 that I owned for 9 years, they were all classified as 'common issues', which is disappointing.

(To put things in perspective, some were minor issues, like rusty wheel bolts which were replaced under warranty, only for the new set to rust-away in the same manner. The problem was only resolved when I eventually replaced the MB wheel bolts with Febi after market ones. MB blame 'harsh wheel cleaning chemicals', but the same chemicals do not seem to affect the bolts on other marques for some reason... in short, you'd expect MB to fix the problem, rather than repeatedly replace wheel bolts under warranty until the warranty runs out. In comparison, I had two Vauxhall Omegas over 12 years, and a Toyota Previa for 20 years, and no rust whatsoever on the wheel bolts or hub surfaces).

 

[HITECH]

If you do your checks then these are no more unreliable than any other car of that age, even the Japanese cars, I had a honda Accord petrol supposedly one of the most reliable cars there is.. let me tell you it wasn't.. I got rid in the end as the bills just mounted up month on month. Was a nice car though.

Yes definitely check the rear subframe, but remember, there are literally thousands of c class on the road, and only a small percentage seem to have suffered the subframe issue. Its only the problems that get reported not the owners who have no issues at all.

The om651 C250cdi is a fine engine. it sufferers water pump failure, and timing chain rattle, which is not a big of a job as you might think. One bit of advice though is find a good recommended merc specialist to look after her.
They need to have proper STAR diagnosis software to find any issues you may face.

The C250 does fly and has plenty of poke, but drive both C220 and C250 and see what you think. I wouldn't worry about buying diesel either. Petrol is fine if you prefer but the M271 does have a timing chain consumption problem so best avoided..as that is thousands to fix compare to the few hundred on the OM651 diesel's.

Just to clarify Mercedes do not NEED MERCEDES STAR Dealers own diagnostics to find fault codes on a mercedes. It will kick up the same codes as any other decent diagnostic reader on the market. STAR diagnosis is expensive and just as likely to kick up FALSE codes as anything else. I have been involved in running STAR diagnostics before and if you are happy enough and financially stable rnough nowadays to pay for a STAR disgnostic then ofcourse it is entirely your own choice. If not and money is an issue then YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GET A STAR DIAGNOSTIC to be sure about mercedes fault codes.

 

[markjay]

Just to clarify Mercedes do not NEED MERCEDES STAR Dealers own diagnostics to find fault codes on a mercedes. It will kick up the same codes as any other decent diagnostic reader on the market. STAR diagnosis is expensive and just as likely to kick up FALSE codes as anything else. I have been involved in running STAR diagnostics before and if you are happy enough and financially stable rnough nowadays to pay for a STAR disgnostic then ofcourse it is entirely your own choice. If not and money is an issue then YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GET A STAR DIAGNOSTIC to be sure about mercedes fault codes.

A private individual cannot (legally) purchase STAR anyway.... but you can take your car to a specialist that has one.

Carly, iCarsoft, and others (Launch, Autel, Snap-on, Delphi, etc) can all read some of the car's modules.

But genuine STAR can (a) read all the car modules, (b) offer guided diagnostic process recommending next steps, (c) do coding, including SCN coding and Datacard updates, and (d) carry-out ECU software updates.

But for the DIY owner, iCarsoft or Carly are usually sufficient, with a local specialist for anything requiring more than code reading and erasing or live data.