C43 Crabbing

[flowrider]

Which size tyres did you have?

20" on the W164 and 19" on the W166

I dont have any issues with my Audi quattro and have had no issues on two Jeep Grand Cherokee's.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Dont agree with that , its not that cold in the UK currently and the car should not need different tyres in above zero temperatures with no snow, my E350 behaves perfectly with low profile Pirelli Zero`s .

That’s what the majority of British drivers believe too, but the reality is that the advances in high performance tyre technology does come with a compromise, and that is that they don’t work as well when cold.

It’s largely a British mindset, and car manufacturers and tyre manufacturers design and build for a global market, where people switch tyres by season - especially those with high performance cars, because high performance tyres don’t work well in the cold.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

20" on the W164 and 19" on the W166

I dont have any issues with my Audi quattro and have had no issues on two Jeep Grand Cherokee's.

Which width and profiles?

 

[flowrider]

Which width and profiles?

Audi 255/35 R19
ML 265/45 R20
ML 255/50 R19

Can't remember the GC's they were 15 years or more ago.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Audi 255/35 R19
ML 265/45 R20
ML 255/50 R19

Can't remember the GC's they were 15 years or more ago.

I suspect that the profile is a little taller than those on affected cars.

Looking at the tyres typically available in that fitment, combined with the size, they’re unlikely to skip.

MLs do skip with larger wheels and tyres though, and did so long before the GLC/C 4matic cars arrived.

It’s not just 4matic and not just Mercedes, other Marques suffer tyre skip, including RWD Mercedes.

I have a RWD Mercedes which started to skip in late September, so I put the winter tyres on, and no skipping since.

 

[DSM10000]

Dont agree with that , its not that cold in the UK currently and the car should not need different tyres in above zero temperatures with no snow, my E350 behaves perfectly with low profile Pirelli Zero`s

It's caused by compromised steering geometry on some RHD models meaning that as the lock increases the alignment of the front wheels becomes incorrect. The issues are worse as wheel size goes up and sidewall height decreases

 

[Warwickduo]

Thanks to everybody who has commented, it was good to read others experiences. With regard to wheel alignment/steering geometry set up the dealer informed me that they carried out a full four wheel lazer check and reset. All has been set up to the MB specification.
I wouldn't want to try and return the car for a refund as the car is a real pleasure to drive, other than the crabbing issue. Therefore I will stick with it and live with the problem, as many other seem to do!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Thanks to everybody who has commented, it was good to read others experiences. With regard to wheel alignment/steering geometry set up the dealer informed me that they carried out a full four wheel lazer check and reset. All has been set up to the MB specification.
I wouldn't want to try and return the car for a refund as the car is a real pleasure to drive, other than the crabbing issue. Therefore I will stick with it and live with the problem, as many other seem to do!

You don’t need to live with it. Get yourself some winter tyres and enjoy better cold weather performance as well as dealing with the tyre skip.

 

[DGAMG63S]

You don’t need to live with it. Get yourself some winter tyres and enjoy better cold weather performance as well as dealing with the tyre skip.

Agreed. It's a nice package; enjoy to the full.

 

[Mythical]

This is a problem I've seen on most AWD cars I've driven/owned.
Getting rid of run-flats for normal tyres with a soft compound will help a lot - I had non run-flat MPS4S on my C43 which eliminated most of the crabbing but it still occurred when temps were below around 6c until the tyres had warmed up to around 17-20c.
As others have said though, if you want the problem gone completely you'll need winter tyres.

 

[Rpp999]

I also have this issue on my brand new C220 S205 4 matic running 19 inch Pirelli run flats.
I was not made aware of this particular issue when I purchased the car, done a reasonable amount of research and read quite a few reviews prior to the purchase. Whilst I really enjoy the driving experience it does bother me that a new vehicle clonks its way of my drive.

 

[grober]

On the 4x4 GLC Mercedes altered the geometry of the front hub casting to alleviate the crabbing issue. Unfortunately they were unable to apply the same fix to the performance models- reasons unknown- but possibly handling stability issue. All-weather or winter tyres will remain more pliable in cold conditions- and in addition having a greater depth of tread and more open thread pattern permit the tyre treads to move about more to dampen down the crabbing sensation- at best it's a compromise solution.

 

[HB]

We have 2018 Cayenne Turbo and a 2019 Bentley Continental in the family They crab like hell in the cold. The C63 now owned by F17ANT crabbed too on 19s.
None of them are on winter tyres, maybe they would stop crabbing in them.
In the good old days , my very good friend had an Evo X. It crabbed worse than a real crab !
Is it just a AWD cold tyre flaw (apart from the C63) ?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

We have 2018 Cayenne Turbo and a 2019 Bentley Continental in the family They crab like hell in the cold. The C63 now owned by F17ANT crabbed too on 19s.
None of them are on winter tyres, maybe they would stop crabbing in them.
In the good old days , my very good friend had an Evo X. It crabbed worse than a real crab !
Is it just a AWD cold tyre flaw (apart from the C63) ?

I have several cars which skip when using high performance summer tyres in cold conditions, the worst being RWD - it gets it’s winter tyres in late September, and good 4-6 weeks before the others.

If a tyre skips when cold then it will not be performing anywhere near it’s best in those conditions - if the ground is cold and wet, and ambient air is cold too, then the tyre will heat up very very slowly and cool down very very quickly - and is unlikely to be warm enough to get into (and stay within) it’s target operating temperature range.

Skipping tyres are warning that the tyre is not suited to the conditions, and should be switched for a winter tyre.

 

[HB]

I have several cars which skip when using high performance summer tyres in cold conditions, the worst being RWD - it gets it’s winter tyres in late September, and good 4-6 weeks before the others.

If a tyre skips when cold then it will not be performing anywhere near it’s best in those conditions - if the ground is cold and wet, and ambient air is cold too, then the tyre will heat up very very slowly and cool down very very quickly - and is unlikely to be warm enough to get into (and stay within) it’s target operating temperature range.

Skipping tyres are warning that the tyre is not suited to the conditions, and should be switched for a winter tyre.

Absolutely correct Bobster but ,very few people actually understand this ......

 

[rf065]

I have several cars which skip when using high performance summer tyres in cold conditions, the worst being RWD - it gets it’s winter tyres in late September, and good 4-6 weeks before the others.

My CLK was exactly the same in cold weather, on full lock reversing out of the driveway or parking in tight spots, it skipped all the time. But never did the same when the winter tyres were fitted.
On 17" wheels and rear wheel drive only, it shows that this problem does not only affect 4wd cars on 20" or larger wheels.

 

[Jibbajabba]

I also have this issue on my brand new C220 S205 4 matic running 19 inch Pirelli run flats.
I was not made aware of this particular issue when I purchased the car, done a reasonable amount of research and read quite a few reviews prior to the purchase. Whilst I really enjoy the driving experience it does bother me that a new vehicle clonks its way of my drive.

I guess I was lucky. When I picked up my 2020 e63s the dealer actually warned me that it skips before I drove off. Whilst it is really annoying, I do prefer the skip in the cold and better driving experience in high speed than no crabbing but potential less optional driving performance.

But as other say - I also went to 19" Michael Alpin for the winter and even at 0C not a single skip.

A sidewall was damaged on one winter tyre so had to put summers on just to take the tyre to the shop and we had -1C ... The thing was all over the place - what a difference.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I guess I was lucky. When I picked up my 2020 e63s the dealer actually warned me that it skips before I drove off. Whilst it is really annoying, I do prefer the skip in the cold and better driving experience in high speed than no crabbing but potential less optional driving performance.

But as other say - I also went to 19" Michael Alpin for the winter and even at 0C not a single skip.

A sidewall was damaged on one winter tyre so had to put summers on just to take the tyre to the shop and we had -1C ... The thing was all over the place - what a difference.

Winter tyres are like witchcraft. It's a night and day difference which has to be experienced to be believed but unfortunately the evangelistic reviews from people who use them (like me) makes those who don't even more robust in their belief that it's snake oil!

In the UK we collectively believe that Winter tyres are only useful in snow, and even then not really useful because "I live in the South" or "It hardly ever snows" or "I can work from home if I have to" or my personal favourite "I've been driving for 40 years and not needed them yet".

In the snow they make the difference between a comfortable drive home or a nightmare, and for the rest of the time they make cars with high performance summer tyres perform beautifully all year round, without the need for excuses.

 

[DGAMG63S]

Winter tyres are like witchcraft. It's a night and day difference which has to be experienced to be believed but unfortunately the evangelistic reviews from people who use them (like me) makes those who don't even more robust in their belief that it's snake oil!

In the UK we collectively believe that Winter tyres are only useful in snow, and even then not really useful because "I live in the South" or "It hardly ever snows" or "I can work from home if I have to" or my personal favourite "I've been driving for 40 years and not needed them yet".

In the snow they make the difference between a comfortable drive home or a nightmare, and for the rest of the time they make cars with high performance summer tyres perform beautifully all year round, without the need for excuses.

Couldn't agree more. Whilst people do "get by", it's no fun meeting another car that's on the edge or barely in control, regardless of the BHP.

 

[rf065]

I also have this issue on my brand new C220 S205 4 matic running 19 inch Pirelli run flats.
I was not made aware of this particular issue when I purchased the car, done a reasonable amount of research and read quite a few reviews prior to the purchase. Whilst I really enjoy the driving experience it does bother me that a new vehicle clonks its way of my drive.

I've got a C250 W205 4 matic on 19" runflats, from new on Contis and recently replaced with Goodyears F1's. It's never done this, must be your Pirelli's?