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Can't get CDI injector out!

johnjohn_98

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Joined
Jun 14, 2004
Messages
22
I'm having trouble(!) getting injector #1 out of my C220 CDI.

I have the tool, used coke for 24 hours, assaulted it with a cold chisel and hammer, but although I can make the top move a few millimetres side-to-side it shows no willingness to move in the important vertical direction. I have left a puddle of penetrating oil on top of it since last night, but I'm not expecting much.

My thoughts:

- borrow an engine lift and using the tool to hold on to the injector apply some lift. I'm
more than a bit scared of damaging the engine mounts which aren't expecting this...

- take the head off and attempt to drive the injector out from underneath. There are
two problems here - 1) the injector isn't very large at the base, so I may have trouble
appllying enough welly and 2) how do you get the head off with the injectors in? It looks
to me like the head bolts are under the timing cover that is UNDER the injectors.

Anybody have any idea?
 
Can you rig up a slide hammer? That should be more effective than an engine lift.
 
Clean the area around the injector with brake cleaner and leave Coca Cola for as long as it takes (usually 2 days).

Good luck!
 
I did the same job recently on an ML270 number 1 injector.
It was a real bitch to remove but if you soak it well and tap it side to side using a bar and hammer on the base of the injector it will start to rock.
I used an open ended spanner slightly smaller than the base of the injector and levered it against the rocker cover. The spanner may require a sharp blow with the hammer to release the injector.
Be carefull not to trap and damage the injector cables.
Once the injector is out the hardest job is cleaning out the stretchbolt thread, I cut a slot in the thread of the old bolt and used it like a tap to clean out the threads in the head.
Don't be tempted to use the old bolt, it may snap and then your in big trouble.

Don't try to rush it and it will be ok
Good Luck.
 
Update

Thanks for all the positive support! This is a nightmare.

I have so far done a) 30 hours with Coke (no help) b) 24 hours with penetrating oil (maybe)
c) used the slide hammer tool until I have a blister on my palm (useless) d) beaten the ,erry hell out of it with 4lb lump hammer and cold chisel (cut into the steel quite a bit, but it does
rock a bit now.

Someone ought to make a squeezing extraction tool which could push against the engine to
force it out. Anyway I will resume the assault this evening as they want their tool back!
 
Liquid Nitrogen?

Only thing I can think of is thermal shock. Know anything about or have access to liquid nitrogen?
 
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you can get freezer spray from your local plumbing center. Might be worth a try.
 
more update - freezer

I did try freezer spray early on, but I think there is so much metal that it couldn't get cold enough fast enough - it was chilly just not that chilly.

Liquid nitrogen would be good though...
 
On the penetrating oil front, have you used a specific penetrating oil or WD-40? I find specifically formulated penetrating oils better than WD-40, which is a bit of a jack of all trades.

Instead of chilling with liquid nitrogen (which will be difficult to apply accurately and safely), how about applying heat to the surrounding area - or are there things in the way (such as cables)? Heat guns generate an amazing amount of heat which will give you the same temperature differential as liquid nitrogen could achieve.

I have no idea where these injectors are located - but you cannot use the engine's compression to blow it out can you?

Philip
 
update

I have been using Halfords penetrating oil (till the brsnd new can aerosol packed up) - it's quite fun to watch it ignite every time I whack it with the chisel (external combustion engine)?

Alas I can't use the engine to blow it out, as I have no way to stem the high pressure fuel feed to this injector, which is now not going to connect to anything except the rubbish bin!

Tonight I am going to throw every bit of strength I have at it, as my only recourse after
this will be to cut the timing cover off, which I don't much fancy...
 
johnjohn_98 said:
Alas I can't use the engine to blow it out, as I have no way to stem the high pressure fuel feed to this injector, which is now not going to connect to anything except the rubbish bin!

I think that turning the engine over to 'blow' the plug out is worth trying....you can interupt the fuel supply by disconnecting the feed supply to the fuel filter (or something similar) you will then be able to attempt this method, be sure to cover the defective injector with some heavy rags to prevent it being launched into orbit if it does decide to depart company from the engine
 
You could try diesel as the release agent it normally softens coke well.
 
I hate to say this but This is an interesting thread and its so nice to see everyone trying to help.

Is this something that is becoming more of a problem?

I have my fingers crossed, but fear it might need someone with a bit more influence?

Good luck,
John
 
Another method is to apply a constant extraction force via your extraction tool while vibrating the component at right angles to its main axis. You could do this with a short steel rod mounted in a good heavy duty hammer drill or breaker. The rod would rotate but if its flattened at the end it should just vibrate the injector rather than bore thro it. The only danger with this method is potential disintegration of the injector but from what you say its pretty robust!
 
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Wednesday's update

Good & bad news...

The timing cover decided it had had enough and shattered! The good news is that the other 3 injectors just lifted out. So I took the hammer to the timing cover around injector #1 and lifted the cover off. So now I have free access to #1 and using a 2' adjustable wrench I can turn it 10 degrees in either direction, using probably around 200lbft! I've left it soaking in oil...

So tonight I will try again, but before I start I'll take a picture - I was going to last night, but I was just covered in oil.

I think I may just increased the value of the non-cdi engined cars and quite frankly I can't see me buying a cdi again; while they are more efficient, in complication and sheer cost of parts (plus the fact that they need replacing too) I think they are a massive step backwards...
 
Wow... I wonder how much it would have cost for an independant (or main dealer) to change the injectors.

I really feel for you and commend your dedication, hopefully the engine will not suffer from all these activities. I am still amazed at what you have had to do, just to remove an injector! Frightening.

Good luck tonight,
John
 
johnjohn_98 said:
Good & bad news...

The timing cover decided it had had enough and shattered! The good news is that the other 3 injectors just lifted out. So I took the hammer to the timing cover around injector #1 and lifted the cover off. So now I have free access to #1 and using a 2' adjustable wrench I can turn it 10 degrees in either direction, using probably around 200lbft! I've left it soaking in oil...

So tonight I will try again, but before I start I'll take a picture - I was going to last night, but I was just covered in oil.

I think I may just increased the value of the non-cdi engined cars and quite frankly I can't see me buying a cdi again; while they are more efficient, in complication and sheer cost of parts (plus the fact that they need replacing too) I think they are a massive step backwards...

We've had that problem with Vitos, first one got a new engine because the stretch bolt snapped, and the second one had to have it's rocker cover smashed off - but even then the injector would not move.

The engine reconditioners got it out though and cleaned up the head though, but it's a bit of a nightmare when you have to take a head off and send it away just to get an injector out.
 
It's out!

So I went home determined that it was coming out. The adjustable wrench could still turn
it +/- 10 degrees either way if I used all my strength.

My plan was to take my drill complete with chisel bit to the injector and give it a good shake. I gave it about 5 minutes in total, squirting it with penetrating oil (as it was certainly moving oil around). Finally I was able to turn one complete revolution anti-clockwise and after about 2 more turns it was obviously coming out... BTW the chisel bit did make some progess into the metal, so I wasn't messing about here.

Imagine my horror when I lifted out a short injector! Yes, it had unscrewed in the hole, leaving the tip, a spring and a washer in there. Remarkably these lifted out with a magnet (I tried screwing the top back in, but even though it connected, all it did was jam itself in again).

So I have some tidying to do, and a bit of a wait for a new cover, but theoretically I should be done in an hour's more work.

Thank you everyone for all the suggestions!


So my recommended solution:

- clean up the recesses before you begin
- remove the clamps
- make sure you can see the gap where the injector enters the head (no grunge)
- make a small pool of penetrating oil around each and leave for a while (maybe overnight)
- use the slide hammer pulling tool to remove.
- If after a few whacks it's not shifting, see if you can twist it using the largest adjustable
wrench you own (pref > 18")
- use more penetrating oil
- if still no movement, try to vibrate using kango drill, chisel drill, basically something
violent!
- be careful if using rotary motion not to uscrew the injector, but this may be the only
way out if you get as stuck as I did
- you may need to remove the cam cover to gain better access, this will break it however.
see if you can
 
and still no piccies:( . I too know very little about the specific problem, and piccies would help.
 
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