Caught by Mobile Laser

[jimmy]

Had a letter in the post this morning at work, somebody was caught in our van doing 56 on a 50mph dual carriageway. Trouble is there are 7 people who regularly drive the van so we have no way of knowing who the driver was, I phoned up the police and asked for the photo so we could see who was driving. They said the photo was of the rear of the van which has solid doors so there is no way of telling who was driving at the time. (Except it was not me.....I know that for a fact)

I explained this to them and they said in that case I as MD was to write to them explaining this and they would not pursue it??

Has anybody else had similar experience?

I thought mobile lasers could only get you approaching them?

 

[Brian WH]

Had a letter in the post this morning at work, somebody was caught in our van doing 56 on a 50mph dual carriageway. Trouble is there are 7 people who regularly drive the van so we have no way of knowing who the driver was, I phoned up the police and asked for the photo so we could see who was driving. They said the photo was of the rear of the van which has solid doors so there is no way of telling who was driving at the time. (Except it was not me.....I know that for a fact)

I explained this to them and they said in that case I as MD was to write to them explaining this and they would not pursue it??

Has anybody else had similar experience?

I thought mobile lasers could only get you approaching them?

That's why most firms keep a log book in the vehicle, to see who was driving and when.

 

[GrahamC230K]

Laser can get you travelling away too, although as you have discovered not much use - even in a car very hard to identify the back of a head through a headrest!

56mph in a 50 is not allowing much tollereance - very strict indeed.

 

[Flyer]

56 in a 50 - what's happened to the ACPO guidelines of 10%+3?

Thieving scumbags (said by someone with 0 points, but who knows that *the* day is coming ).

James, have a look on pepipoo ; sure to find an answer there.

 

[Maff]

One of my fathers employees was caught doing 36 in a 30. As he didn't know who was driving at the time, it ended up going to court and he told them just that - could have been anyone of 5 people. Dad ended up with a £650 fine for failing to identify the driver Madness.

 

[GrahamC230K]

One of my fathers employees was caught doing 36 in a 30. As he didn't know who was driving at the time, it ended up going to court and he told them just that - could have been anyone of 5 people. Dad ended up with a £650 fine for failing to identify the driver Madness.

Agreed, but at least as Director he didn't get points as well - I believe points can also be issued in such cases.

 

[IanT]

One of my fathers employees was caught doing 36 in a 30. As he didn't know who was driving at the time, it ended up going to court and he told them just that - could have been anyone of 5 people. Dad ended up with a £650 fine for failing to identify the driver Madness.

Eeeeeek...

Back on 16th November my car was photographed doing 41 in a 30, but my other half and I couldn't work out who was driving that day and asked the Police for photographs, they sent one, but it didn't help at all.

I then responded that the car was definately there and that it was either myself or other half driving, but that we could not work out who drove on that occasion. I didn't dispute that an offence may have been committed.

I filled in the form, stating that as I owned the vehicle I would take responsibility for the offence and pay the fine, but we could not establish who was driving at the time of the incident - the NIP came through some 12 or 13 days later.

This was an honest response, and I was concerned that the other picture of the car may identify the driver, which had a 50% chance of proving me a liar if I had responded definately one way or the other. Of course the Police wrote back to say that they felt they indeed did have enough evidence to bring a prosecution against the driver and that they would refer it to the Courts to decide.

The whole thing makes me wonder if there's any point being honest any more - I realise that the Police must get all sorts of stories, but the photo showed the car on a quiet road, at 10am on a Sunday with no other traffic and about 4 lanes width. I won't argue the point as to whether 41mph was wrong in a 30 limit, but neither of us drive any further in excess of the speed limit than anybody else. I thought that my response was the only one I could have made without being at risk of false truth, but really - does that make me a criminal?

Looks like I'm going to have to go to Court and be humiliated alongside people that don't bother with insurance, 'borrow' other people's cars without permission... I guess the summons will come through soon.

Ian.

 

[Kinky]

It's the classic Hamiltons defence case.

One of them was driving. Can't recall which one. And can't lie by taking the rap.

Well documented on PH, safespeed, ABD and pepipoo.

K

 

[IanT]

I didn't see any info on that case but became aware of it more recently. All I heard is that the case was dismissed.

Although that does set a precedent, I don't see that it will help our position - after all, if everyone says this and gets off with their offences, then the legal framework collapses. I can only expect them to (wrongly) throw the book at us.

Ian

 

[jimmy]

I am not disputing that my company van was caught doing 56 in a 50 limit but I honestly cannot say nor can my staff remember who was driving it at that time. The van is used by any one of 7 people, I think we could narrow it down to a possible 4 on that day. The way we operate, we just jump in either the van, Smart, Mondeo or Volvo, whatever is parked nearest the door at the time. Most journeys are only a couple of miles and last 20-30 minutes so it would be difficult to keep a log.

I will write and offer to pay the fine but as the company director I do not want the points on my license.

 

[IanT]

I will write and offer to pay the fine but as the company director I do not want the points on my license.

That does sound like the most honest response you could make. I offered to pay the fine, but the Police have rejected that as they are apparently unable to fine people who were not driving at the time.

I'd be interested to hear what happens.

Ian.

 

[Dieselman]

I am not disputing that my company van was caught doing 56 in a 50 limit but I honestly cannot say nor can my staff remember who was driving it at that time. The van is used by any one of 7 people, I think we could narrow it down to a possible 4 on that day. The way we operate, we just jump in either the van, Smart, Mondeo or Volvo, whatever is parked nearest the door at the time. Most journeys are only a couple of miles and last 20-30 minutes so it would be difficult to keep a log.

I will write and offer to pay the fine but as the company director I do not want the points on my license.

Jimmy many companies operate like this with pool vehicles but you are required by law to keep an accurate record of who is driving any given vehicle at any time.
We have over 1200 vehicles and still have to keep a record of any driver changes.

 

[jimmy]

Jimmy many companies operate like this with pool vehicles but you are required by law to keep an accurate record of who is driving any given vehicle at any time.
We have over 1200 vehicles and still have to keep a record of any driver changes.

Ooops, did not know that.

Still waiting for the photo to arrive, see if it jogs anybody's memory. I think I could narrow it down to 2 possible drivers so I will let them fight it out for a day or two.

 

[palcouk]

If you genuinely dont know who was driving at the time the prosecution must be dismissed- there is plenty of precidence for this, eg Hamiltons case.
I received a NIP for speed in Dec03 relating to an offence in Nov03, but I had no recollection of the incident or having been in that road.
The paperwork asks you to identify driver 'in that place at that time' since I had no recollection I responded by stating 'I was only driver, I was driving on that date, but I had no recollection of being in that place at that time'
I received a response saying the speeding would not be proceeded with but they might consider other options.
To date I have heard nothing.

 

[Kinky]

Jimmy,

Keep close tabs on this one .... the guy goes to court tomorrow .... interesting to note what the outcome is.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=94093&f=10&h=0

K

 

[Kinky]

if you're following the posting above ...... he got off scott-free :bannana:

"Just a quick note to let you all know that my case got chucked out of court as the prosecutor couldnt prove it was me driving."

 

[Mark-R]

You are innocent until proven guilty. If the camera cannot prove who was driving, guilt cannot be proved.

 

[IanT]

LOL, yes, but the charge isn't of speeding by the time it gets to that point, but of failing to provide the information as to who was driving at the time, which is an entirely different matter. I believe you are correct, the charge of speeding will be dropped and replaced with a potentially worse situation. I believe the maximum penalty is 3 points and £1000 fine for failing to name the driver.

Ian.

 

[Will]

Ahh, but I am sure that the responsibility of the registered keeper is to either name the driver OR a list of possible drivers. So, if Jimmy was to give the names of all 7 possible drivers he has fulfilled his responsibilty set out by the road traffic act?!?

It is then up to the prosecution to provide evidence as to who is responsible and to prove it!

Correct me if I have mis-interpreted anything?!?

Cheers,
Will

 

[IanT]

I believe the Act goes further than that, but practically that may be the result. The registered keeper is required to have control of their vehicle and that includes knowing who was driving.

Ian.