Cheap Properties in France

[Swotty]

Doesn't a "tontine" (yes, correct spelling) mean that the property passes to the surviving partner (the wife, normally, natch) rather than passing directly to your children.

Which potentially could result in a disinheritance, if your children are not hers.

(Isn't this a workaround to avoid inheritance tax on the property passing immediately to the children on the death of the first parent?)

Almost ... the property passes on to the kids but the surviving spouse gets to stay in it until (s)he dies or decides to sell. The kids cannot legally force her/him out.

Equally, the kids have to agree to her/him selling .... but why would they not?

In the words of the song ... no-one said it would be easy.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Almost ... the property passes on to the kids but the surviving spouse gets to stay in it until (s)he dies or decides to sell. The kids cannot legally force her/him out.

Equally, the kids have to agree to her/him selling .... but why would they not?

In the words of the song ... no-one said it would be easy.

Ah, similar to some things which are often done in the UK.

I "thought" there was an issue with ownership passing to her, and then potentially to her children, rather than his. My mistake.

"Family politics:" bless their little socks.

 

[ChipChop]

What you say is not true: a Notaire will charge a negociation fee (typically 3%) just as the agents immobilier.

Leggett immobilier charge the following fees.

• From 0 € to 66,000 fee € - 6 600
• From 66,001 € to 99,999 fee € - 10%
• From 100,000 € to 149,999 fee € - 9%
• From 150,000 € to 199,999fee € - 8%
• From 200,000 € to 299,999 fee € - 7%
• Over 300,000 fee € - 6%

Unless i am missing something all of these immobilier fees are much higher than a notaires negotiation fees (3% you said). Then on top you have the conveyancing costs via a notaire irrespective of who you buy the property from.

 

[ChipChop]

Then for those who like a gamble there is the option of buying a French property via a viager sale. Which appears to be taking a financial gamble (a single lump sum & monthly payments) on how long the seller has left on this earth. Odd.

 

[Gollom]

Then for those who like a gamble there is the option of buying a French property via a viager sale. Which appears to be taking a financial gamble (a single lump sum & monthly payments) on how long the seller has left on this earth. Odd.

Thank goodness I do not live in France - my kids would be all over that like a car bonnet!

 

[tode]

Leggett immobilier charge the following fees.

• From 0 € to 66,000 fee € - 6 600
• From 66,001 € to 99,999 fee € - 10%
• From 100,000 € to 149,999 fee € - 9%
• From 150,000 € to 199,999fee € - 8%
• From 200,000 € to 299,999 fee € - 7%
• Over 300,000 fee € - 6%

Unless i am missing something all of these immobilier fees are much higher than a notaires negotiation fees (3% you said). Then on top you have the conveyancing costs via a notaire irrespective of who you buy the property from.

Leggett seem to be trying to rake it in

The usual rate is between 2.5 and 3.5%, but there's no legal limit to what an agent can ask . . .
Just as an example, when we bought our current house the agent was asking 3%, but we beat him down to 2% . . .
Not a huge difference, but 1% is better in our pocket than in his.

Most notaires act as agents immobilier also and seem to follow the 2.5/3.5% rate.
And, as you say, the conveyancing cost (which is fixed by law) works out at around 8% on a medium-price house (the rate is degressive).

 

[tode]

From memory, on first death surviving spouse has to immediately pay inheritance tax on what he/she inherits, which is 50% with the other 50% going to their children. Any UK style will is ignored, so the UK rule of inheritance between spouses on first death does not exist, neither does a clause in your UK will splitting kids inheritance less than equally - for instance cutting a child out completely, as you can do under UK law. Be very careful!!

Also not sure if this applies in France, but a niece appeared to inherit her late father's apartment in Torre Blanca Spain, only to find it was still in the parent's joint names. She was executor of late father's will, but late Mother's will had never been probated so she had to do that first, then get probate on father's will then use those documents to get Spanish authorities to transfer apartment ownership from joint to father to her - took many many months!! Involved parties were Irish so EU citizens, made no difference!

That's not quite how it works:

On the death of a spouse, the surviving spouse pays no inheritance tax on their part of the inheritance.
Where things change radically from the UK, is that 2/3 of the inheritance is blocked for the children (if there were 2 children) and the remaining 1/3 can de disposed of according to the deceased will (if there was a will).

The surviving spouse also has the choice of receiving a 1/4 of the inheritance, or to receive the usufruct of the totality while the children receive the bare-ownership (until the death of the surviving spouse).

It is quite complicated, and the surviving partner has some difficult choices to make, especially in the presence of children.

I have no idea of Spanish law, but it would seem that the (Spanish) paperwork was not correctly completed after the death of her father.

 

[NJSS]

I am not giving advice, you should go to a professional for that.

But consider buying through an Société Civile Immobilière ("SCI"), which is what I did.

SCI and French Inheritance Laws

SCI and French Inheritance laws and taxes. Information about Societe Civile Immobiliere Inheritance laws and taxes in France.

www.french-property.com

You will need a good specialist bi-lingual avocat. Mine Thierry Clerc is excellent and is based in Rouen & Paris, but serves the whole country. The link below is in English, despite appearances !:-

Clerc Avocats | Thierry Clerc - Avocat Clerc Avocats

Thierry Clerc est spécialisé en droit commercial et droit international depuis plus de 25 ans et concentre son activité sur les contrats et conseils aux entreprises.

www.tclerc-avocats.fr

NJSS

 

[Darrell]

How much?

200,000eu

 

[ALFAitalia]

As a kid I remember holidays like that at Bognor. It didn't look nearly as good though.

Whadda ya mean.....Bognor could almost be its identical win!!!

La Baule



Bognor Regis!

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

As a kid I remember holidays like that at Bognor. It didn't look nearly as good though.

Rose coloured spectacles

 

[tjamesbo]

Hi,
From what you say, I'd be looking at this area of France:
View attachment 157480

You could get there easily from Portsmouth, which means you avoid London.
The area is far enough from Paris to be cheap.

You can search for a house on "Leboncoin", which is used by private sellers as well as estate agents and 'notaires'.
You can't use Google Translate on this site, but it's very easy to use.
Here's a link to the area: CLICKY LEBONCOIN

When you say "cheap" have you got an idea of your price range

Hi,
From what you say, I'd be looking at this area of France:
View attachment 157480

You could get there easily from Portsmouth, which means you avoid London.
The area is far enough from Paris to be cheap.

You can search for a house on "Leboncoin", which is used by private sellers as well as estate agents and 'notaires'.
You can't use Google Translate on this site, but it's very easy to use.
Here's a link to the area: CLICKY LEBONCOIN

When you say "cheap" have you got an idea of your price range ?

hth

thanks enjoying perusing the options there but it wont let me open an account after the email and password it asks for a phone number and doesnt list uk only appears to list eurozone countries ? pain as I'm trying to save some favourites

 

[Tonye]

Hi, we have a static caravan in the vendee at st jean de monts for the early summer and will be renting in Spain for a couple of months in the winter, the rest of the time we are on our narrow boat with 2000 miles of network to explore. A great option for some, worth a look into. Its a hard life.

 

[tjamesbo]

Hi,
From what you say, I'd be looking at this area of France:
View attachment 157480

You could get there easily from Portsmouth, which means you avoid London.
The area is far enough from Paris to be cheap.

You can search for a house on "Leboncoin", which is used by private sellers as well as estate agents and 'notaires'.
You can't use Google Translate on this site, but it's very easy to use.
Here's a link to the area: CLICKY LEBONCOIN

When you say "cheap" have you got an idea of your price range ?

hth

Thanks enjoying perusing the options there but it wont let me open an account after the email and password it asks for a phone number and doesnt list uk only appears to list eurozone countries ? pain as I'm trying to save some favourites

 

[tode]

Hi Tjamesbo,
Sorry you're having trouble with Leboncoin - it's a very useful site, you can find almost anything there.

Have you tried going directly to the ads (and not opening an account, which isn't obligatory). I can understand that they wouldn't be keen on having 'foreign' accounts . . .

You could also try this site (but they have a lot less choice: HOUSE SALES OUESTFRANCE

Good luck with your search

 

[Dippo]

Why not fake a foreign number? Look up a hotel or restaurant in Paris, and change one digit of the number so that no-one gets any calls?

 

[tjamesbo]

Why not fake a foreign number? Look up a hotel or restaurant in Paris, and change one digit of the number so that no-one gets any calls?

tried that but they send a code to it obviously has to be two step verification

 

[Gollom]

Thanks enjoying perusing the options there but it wont let me open an account after the email and password it asks for a phone number and doesnt list uk only appears to list eurozone countries ? pain as I'm trying to save some favourites

Maybe @Swotty would be willing to help - he lives in France and seems a decent chap!

 

[Swotty]

Maybe @Swotty would be willing to help - he lives in France and seems a decent chap!

Hi guys,

You should be able to access Leboncoin as Tode says. There is no need to open an account.

Perhaps using a VPN would help?

A useful source may be the France Notaire's website ... in addition to their role administering property sales and purchases, they have property for sale, often "bargain basement":

100 000 annonces immobilières : Ventes, locations, enchères, viagers | Immobilier.notaires

Consultez les annonces immobilières des notaires. Plus de 100 000 biens à vendre et à louer partout en France.

www.immobilier.notaires.fr

Otherwise Leggetts - don't know your budget but they have nearly 1400 properties below €100,000 - around £85,000 at today's exchange rates:

Houses for sale. Property in France by Leggett

Leggett Estate Agent - 10,000 French properties and houses for sale. Many only found on this website. Network of over 700 estate agents based across France with local knowledge

www.frenchestateagents.com

If you have an area in mind, use the postcode (5 digits) and search for "immobiliers".

Let me know by pm if I can help further.

 

[tjamesbo]

Hi guys,

You should be able to access Leboncoin as Tode says. There is no need to open an account.

Perhaps using a VPN would help?

A useful source may be the France Notaire's website ... in addition to their role administering property sales and purchases, they have property for sale, often "bargain basement":

100 000 annonces immobilières : Ventes, locations, enchères, viagers | Immobilier.notaires

Consultez les annonces immobilières des notaires. Plus de 100 000 biens à vendre et à louer partout en France.

www.immobilier.notaires.fr

Otherwise Leggetts - don't know your budget but they have nearly 1400 properties below €100,000 - around £85,000 at today's exchange rates:

Houses for sale. Property in France by Leggett

Leggett Estate Agent - 10,000 French properties and houses for sale. Many only found on this website. Network of over 700 estate agents based across France with local knowledge

www.frenchestateagents.com

If you have an area in mind, use the postcode (5 digits) and search for "immobiliers".

Let me know by pm if I can help further.

thanks for that still up in the air UK or Ireland or France LOL