COMAND SatNav and Postcodes

[Duncan Beaumont]

Does anyone know if and when MB plan to bring their satnav into the 21st century by incorporating British seven (eight?) character post codes?

At the moment entering a destination when you have a passenger in the car is an embarrassing joke.

 

[masher_uk]

Sorry I don't, but I know exactly where you're coming from. A colleague of mine 'demonstrated' the sat nav in his new C class estate the other day and I thought I'd been transported back in time about 10 years . My £150 TomTom leaves it standing. Should just be a software/map upgrade though I would have thought. Needless to say, mine's on order without this option...

mash

 

[crockers]

Needless to say, mine's on order without this option...

mash

To me Comand is MORE than just sat nav and I wouldn't want a mercedes without it....

But..each to their own

 

[Diesel Benz]

Reading this forum it looks like the full post code support was the one and only thing owners would use on their navi. A pity MB did not have it, at least so far, I understand just about everywhere else 5 digits is all you need.

Anyway I interpret the complaints that this is more or less the one and only real drawback, which is good.

 

[raymont]

Anyway I interpret the complaints that this is more or less the one and only real drawback, which is good.

Speaking for myself there are a few other deficiencies:

Inablity to input house number other than as a range ( and not always even that). With a long road you can find yourself a considerable distance from where you want to be.

Late instructions ( maybe peculiar to my car).

Slow route recalculation when a turn is missed.

Out of date mapping, roads several years old missing from 2007 / 2008 disc.

Inability to input my own POI.

Not touch screen and messy user interface.

Ludicrous price of updated disc.

IMHO a pretty poor system.

 

[whitenemesis]

Speaking for myself there are a few other deficiencies:

Inablity to input house number other than as a range ( and not always even that). With a long road you can find yourself a considerable distance from where you want to be. Never tried this!

Late instructions ( maybe peculiar to my car). Perfectly timed for me.

Slow route recalculation when a turn is missed. Has always been in time for the next instruction!

Out of date mapping, roads several years old missing from 2007 / 2008 disc. Agreed

Inability to input my own POI. Not something I've ever felt inclined to do.

Not touch screen and messy user interface. True, get yourself Linguatronic and use voice commands

Ludicrous price of updated disc. Much less than a £ a day!

IMHO a pretty poor system. But as crockers says, it's more than just a sat nav! Each to his own

 

[raymont]

Speaking for myself there are a few other deficiencies:



Ludicrous price of updated disc. Much less than a £ a day!

IMHO a pretty poor system. But as crockers says, it's more than just a sat nav! Each to his own



Price of new disc is more than price of e.g. complete and superior Tomtom system.

Yes Comand is more than satnav, but we were talking about the satnav component.

 

[oldcro]

Speaking for myself there are a few other deficiencies:

Inablity to input house number other than as a range ( and not always even that). With a long road you can find yourself a considerable distance from where you want to be.

Especially if were in Canada and looking for a particular house on Yonge Street.

 

[prprandall51]

I don't know the current state of play in terms of Post Office licensing arrangements, but when I worked in the sat nav industry the Post Office licensed full postcode data to TomTom as an experiment and then decided against granting any further licences to anybody; this left everyone else limited to 5-digit entry. This immediately put TomTom on an unequal footing to all the other SatNav manufacturers - and, because the deal was done with the hardware manufacturer instead of the map data provider (TeleAtlas / Navtec), you are unlikely to see full postcode entry on many in-car devices. (Yes, I know that TA now belongs to TomTom, but that does not mean the Post Office licensing would change).

It must also be remembered that the software for a vehicle such as a 211 is coded some 12 months before product launch and is then only updated during the vehicle lifetime. You are not likely to see MB release a complete new cut of the navigation software; for a start, the mood on these forums appears to be that people expect it FoC - so who is going to pay for it? And secondly, if there are any problems with the new software, MB are only going to create a headache for themselves. It's all pain and no gain.

As to specific house numbers (instead of number ranges), I have never heard of this data being present on any satnav system in the market in the UK, but it's been a while since I looked at what's out there. Has anyone got this on any system?

As to frequent updates, this is a purely commercial situation, not a technical issue. If there was enough demand and people were willing to upgrade regularly enough, then you could have multiple update disks a year; but not enough people are prepared to pay for the extremely large amount of effort that goes into producing each cut of the disk. Just look at the number of people within this hallowed forum who are quite happy to use a pirated disk or do the pirating themselves. Amongst the honest folk (the vast majority) most complain about the cost of the disk whilst having absolutely no idea about what goes into its production. The thinking seems to be that owners should only have to pay a token sum to cover actual manufacturing, shipping and point of sale costs, what about the development and testing processes?

As for the comparisons with TomTom et al, if you look at the volumes in which TomToms are shifted compared to the number of Comand systems fitted, there is no comparison. TomTom licencing runs to millions of deployed units. Of course they can update more regularly, just look at their revenue stream (£1 billion last year - almost all from the sale of £200 portable navigation devices). These are numbers of installed units that Ford could only dream of, never mind a minority car manufacturer such as MB.

It's really simple. You like Comand, you buy Comand. You like TomTom you buy TomTom. Comparing the two is pointless.

 

[BTB 500]

As to specific house numbers (instead of number ranges), I have never heard of this data being present on any satnav system in the market in the UK, but it's been a while since I looked at what's out there. Has anyone got this on any system?

On current TomToms you can navigate by giving a road name and house number. Don't know if it only uses number ranges behind the scenes though.

 

[raymont]

On current TomToms you can navigate by giving a road name and house number. Don't know if it only uses number ranges behind the scenes though.

My previous vehicle, LR D3 had house number and full post code capability.

 

[prprandall51]

My previous vehicle, LR D3 had house number and full post code capability.

That's interesting - looks like the Post Office are being more realistic about their data and newer systems have the full postcode support.

As to house numbers, I wonder if BTB is right - the system could be masking a house number range search and passing it off as a specific house number search. After all, in Comand, it usually drops you within two to three doors of your destination since most number ranges comprise 10 houses (5 on each side, so you are never more than a couple of houses rom your destination).

 

[Rory]

It's really simple. You like Comand, you buy Comand. You like TomTom you buy TomTom. Comparing the two is pointless.

There is a "3rd way"! Integrate a TomTom dock into the car. Some manufacturers are starting to do this.

From a business point of view, I guess MB must be happy to sell few COMAND units but at high prices. Sure, they'd sell more if it was cheaper but halve the price and that could be 75% or more of the profit gone even on higher volumes.

I got COMAND effectively free on my 6mth old car, but I would be beside myself with fury if I'd paid 2 grand for it. Its only positive point is that it looks good and it "lifts" the interior - all integrated SatNavs do that.

 

[raymont]

I can see that licensing cost could be an issue, but e.g. Land Rover can manage it and their price for satnav is broadly compatible with MB.

It must also be remembered that the software for a vehicle such as a 211 is coded some 12 months before product launch………

It might indeed be difficult for MB to upgrade existing systems. But what about newer cars such as mine (GL launched 06)? It could have been launched with a better system. What does the new C class have?

As to specific house numbers (instead of number ranges), I have never heard of this data being present on any satnav system in the market in the UK, but it's been a while since I looked at what's out there. Has anyone got this on any system?

As previously stated LR manage it and so apparently do TomTom. This is more important with only 5 digit postcode as all you get to do is select a road. Full post code positions you on the road. As you say it could be a front to a range system.

As to frequent updates, this is a purely commercial situation…..

Yes indeed it is commercial. Recognise all costs you mention. Although with quality of MB discs V9 and V9.1 and some previous versions MB appear to have omitted the testing bit yet still ask top dollar for a buggy system. Make the price reasonable, the quality good and the commercial side might work out to MBs advantage. More sales and less reason to pirate the software. Would more people buy if the cost was, say, £75?


It's really simple. You like Comand, you buy Comand. You like TomTom you buy TomTom. Comparing the two is pointless.

You can only make the choice by comparing the offers. If only comparing satnav capability there is only one winner (TT or other stand alone offerings).

But, as often stated, Comand is an attempt to deliver a built in unified interface to various things such as sat nav, CD, radio, TV, telephone etc., so if you want this interface you are also stuck with buying a substandard nav system.

I think that is really disappointing that MB ( and probably other manufacturers ) seem to struggle to deliver in areas such as satnav and telephone integration.

 

[prprandall51]

I can see that licensing cost could be an issue, but e.g. Land Rover can manage it and their price for satnav is broadly compatible with MB.

It wasn't a licensing cost, but a licensing restriction I was referring to. But I honestly don't know the details of the Post Office postcode licensing applicable currently.

It might indeed be difficult for MB to upgrade existing systems. But what about newer cars such as mine (GL launched 06)? It could have been launched with a better system. What does the new C class have?

It does seem disappointing that the Comand system hasn't moved further forward than it has. I think MB's strategy of developing one product for their entire range is very wise, but it should accelerate development of new features, not hold it back. As for your GL (and all other cars), I suspect that MB will have frozen a version of Comand at some point prior to production of the vehicle and that's what you get. For the GL, your SatNav is of 2004-2005 vintage, I would imagine. You have to look at what else was on the market at that time, not what TomTom are doing today.

As to specific house numbers ....
As previously stated LR manage it and so apparently do TomTom. This is more important with only 5 digit postcode as all you get to do is select a road. Full post code positions you on the road. As you say it could be a front to a range system.

I think it's fronting a range-based search. I hope somebody in the know will post an authorative answer.... To collect that data would be a huge undertaking - too big to contemplate, almost.

Yes indeed it is commercial. Recognise all costs you mention. Although with quality of MB discs V9 and V9.1 and some previous versions MB appear to have omitted the testing bit yet still ask top dollar for a buggy system. Make the price reasonable, the quality good and the commercial side might work out to MBs advantage. More sales and less reason to pirate the software. Would more people buy if the cost was, say, £75?

Didn't MB recently reduce the price from £250+ down to £120ish? As to quality of disks, I couldn't comment but I do see threads reporting problems.

You can only make the choice by comparing the offers. If only comparing satnav capability there is only one winner (TT or other stand alone offerings).

But, as often stated, Comand is an attempt to deliver a built in unified interface to various things such as sat nav, CD, radio, TV, telephone etc., so if you want this interface you are also stuck with buying a substandard nav system.

I don't think Comand is substandard - it's just average. Overall, there's a lot in the Comand box - way more than a nav system - and I like how it all works together. As for cost, well, KeylessGo is a £600 option on an MB and standard on some upmarket Nissan Micras. If Ford produced Comand it would cost a lot less, but you are buying a branded product and paying for that brand.