CONTAMINATED FUEL ???

[DSM10000]

Tesco near me is an Esso station. They are forever running out of fuel(s) so I guess it's pretty fresh when they have it. the place is also very busy.

You may explain it to them, you may not understand it for them.

 

[Petrol Pete]

It was a Tesco one but was re branded to Esso for some (probably marketing/responsibility) reason....or it was an Esso all along

 

[DSM10000]

You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead.

You may lead a whore to culture but you cannot make her think............

 

[Petrol Pete]

Time flies like the wind , but fruit fly's like grapes.

 

[DSM10000]

As the Dutch say, if the cap fits, use it!!

 

[Petrol Pete]

I think we had better stop now

 

[CJD]

You need the point explained?

So "the only stories" you have heard.................Any factual evidence here or just stories?

By facts I mean definitive evidence of vehicles damaged by poor fuel quality (all made to the same standard remember?) storage etc broken down by forecourt / supplier.

As I published in another thread on this subject over 40% (I believe possibly closer to 50% now)of fuel is sold from Supermarket forecourts. By any reasonable and logical person's thinking that would mean that a huge number of vehicles would be damaged if your contention was correct. Aso, keep in mind that a lot of Supermarket forecourt operations are run by some of the largest Petroleum fuel suppliers on behalf of the Supermarkets.

See here :Motor fuel market share by brand in the UK 2017 | Statistic

Make a point by all means but back it up with facts not some ambiguous passive-aggressive statement . I have no idea what you do / did for a living but my profession uses evidence based practice.

Yes - Both Tesco and Morrisons have had problems with their fuel, (it was given a lot of publicity in the national news / press at the time), and if I remember correctly it was down to the incorrect fuel being dispensed rather than contamination with water, but it still ruined an awful lot of peoples days.
I never said anything about the quality of their fuel - it being rubbish or an inferior product - I simply said I don't use supermarket fuels - as I choose not to.

 

[DSM10000]

Yes - Both Tesco and Morrisons have had problems with their fuel, (it was given a lot of publicity in the national news / press at the time), and if I remember correctly it was down to the incorrect fuel being dispensed rather than contamination with water, but it still ruined an awful lot of peoples days.
I never said anything about the quality of their fuel - it being rubbish or an inferior product - I simply said I don't use supermarket fuels - as I choose not to.

Thank you for a reasoned response.

The errors you mention could have equally happened at a regular forecourt though? Were they also not down to delivery driver or forecourt employee error? I cannot remember the details

I suppose whoever sells the majority of fuel (and from my link it seems to be Tesco) would have the potential to have the majority of problems as well? Although life is not always that straightforward.

I have used a wide range of fuel stations over the years and when driving petrol never noticed any difference in performance etc and never had an emissions problem at MOT time. The only thing I have noticed with the diesel is that on two tanks of Waitrose fuel (A Shell badged forecourt) the low fuel warning has illuminated at around 485 miles on average whilst on BP (4 tanks), Tesco (2 tanks), Sainsbury's (2), Esso (1) it has always come on at around 505 or higher and I always fill to the brim.

There is an advantage to using the fuel of Satan, I am only visiting to re-fuel every three weeks, pity the RR is not as frugal

 

[400ixl]

People have selective memories when it comes to supermarket fuel. Number of times I hear people referring to the wide ranging problem a few years ago where dozens of stations had contaminated fuels. They only seem to remember the Supermarket stations being affected, when in fact it was many different ones including Texaco, BP. Why, because the issue happened at the refinery which supplies both brand and supermarkets.

There have also been more isolated issues for individual stations where errors have occurred in tankers or at individual stations where the wrong tanks have got the wrong fuel. Again across both supermarkets and branded stations, but guess which get to be folk lore.

There was a recent example where a Shell Optimax tank got contaminated with the wrong fuel at a location station to us. Caused the exact same issues as those that happened at any other station this error has occurred at.

Fuel contamination can happen anywhere to any brand at any point in the supply chain. Supermarket fuel meets all of the standards required by law, they get independently inspected at random times, just like the branded stations.

Now, is all fuel the same, no it isn't. Some fuels such as Optimax, Ultimate etc have additives and additional refinement which adds to the price at the forecourt. Standard fuels are actually often (but not always) the same across supermarkets and brands, so filling up at a brand station may well be giving no different fuel or blend when using the basic fuels. Fuels are bought off the open market unless that brand happens to own their own refineries (and actually even they they sometimes buy on the open market).

If you wish to pay the premium for the specialist fuels for either performance or maintenance reasons, then fine. But if you buy the standard fuel from brands because supermarket fuel is crap, time to get off the high horse as you are probably getting the same stuff a lot of the time.

Anyway, back to the OP's original post.

I would be asking the MB dealer for a sample of the fuel in order to get it independently checked. Or at least insisting they do in order to back up their claim that it was an external influence which could pass through the fuel filter that caused the problem. Under their warranty I would be insisting they have a responsibility to reasonably prove that they are not liable.

 

[DSM10000]

People have selective memories when it comes to supermarket fuel. Number of times I hear people referring to the wide ranging problem a few years ago where dozens of stations had contaminated fuels. They only seem to remember the Supermarket stations being affected, when in fact it was many different ones including Texaco, BP. Why, because the issue happened at the refinery which supplies both brand and supermarkets.

There have also been more isolated issues for individual stations where errors have occurred in tankers or at individual stations where the wrong tanks have got the wrong fuel. Again across both supermarkets and branded stations, but guess which get to be folk lore.

There was a recent example where a Shell Optimax tank got contaminated with the wrong fuel at a location station to us. Caused the exact same issues as those that happened at any other station this error has occurred at.

Fuel contamination can happen anywhere to any brand at any point in the supply chain. Supermarket fuel meets all of the standards required by law, they get independently inspected at random times, just like the branded stations.

Now, is all fuel the same, no it isn't. Some fuels such as Optimax, Ultimate etc have additives and additional refinement which adds to the price at the forecourt. Standard fuels are actually often (but not always) the same across supermarkets and brands, so filling up at a brand station may well be giving no different fuel or blend when using the basic fuels. Fuels are bought off the open market unless that brand happens to own their own refineries (and actually even they they sometimes buy on the open market).

If you wish to pay the premium for the specialist fuels for either performance or maintenance reasons, then fine. But if you buy the standard fuel from brands because supermarket fuel is crap, time to get off the high horse as you are probably getting the same stuff a lot of the time.

Thank you for an intelligent and balanced response.

Unfortunately there are those so blinkered that no amount of proof or common sense reasoning will alter their warped perceptions

 

[Johnpen]

I was effected by a suspected fuel contamination issue a few years back, from a local Tesco (Thurs). I had a 520d at the time, filled up and drove from Pool to Cambridge and back.

On the way home, engine light came on and the engine was hunting on tick over, restarted and engine light went off, but the hunting continued. Took the car to a local garage who could see all sorts of strange things with fuel pressures, thought it could be the high pressure pump, but also said these never go wrong! Booked car in the following week to be looked at.

Over the weekend car failed (Sat), and would not start so RAC came, took a fuel sample to see if fuel was being pumped, said it looked very funny, but put it down to the fact he was using a drink bottle from the cab. Car taken to local garage. He them phoned me the next day to ask if I had filled up at the tesco petrol station!! Turns out I wasn't the only one.

Tesco had informed the local paper that they suspected a fuel problem, the first they knew of it was when their own pump failed on the Saturday morning, then during the day they had a few reports of cars failing. Called Tesco on the Monday, they asked for Club Card number, card number to confirm. Basically held their hands up, said to get the car to BMW, they arranged for an E Class to be delivered the next day whilst car was repaired.

Turns out everyone who filled with diesel that day fooked their engines, the entire fuel system had to be replaced, for my car it was around 11k and it was written off, no problems in getting compensation. No idea of how many cars were effected but BMW had over 20 cars in, and even more mini's, I know there was a shortage of hire cars for a while, due to the number out to effected people. I had the E class for 6 weeks.

Turned out the petrol delivery driver had switched the fuel for some industrial diesel or something, he was charged but found not guilty apparently. But anyway the main thing is they do tend to hold their hands up if there is an issue.

 

[johnsco]

I've driven diesels vehicles for over 20 years ...
Jeep Cherokee TD
Two MB E300TDs
E280 CD Sports Estate ... My present car.

During these years, I've driven some 600,000 miles - Mostly in my work.
I work for myself, so I've always filled up using the cheapest fore-court diesel ....... usually ASDA ....... Often Morrisons.
I always use Millers Diesel Power Eco-max (strictly as recommended).
In all of this time, I've never experienced one bit of fuel trouble.
And - I don't know any other diesel driver who has either.

These stories do happen and they do hit the headlines.
But - If I had any reason not to have confidence in ASDA or Morrisons, then I wouldn't use them.
Just my experience.

Now that I've retired, I have a couple of unopened 5-litre cans of Millers DPE for sale at a very attractive price.
Highly-recommended ... PM me if interested.

 

[E55BOF]

I usually use either V-Power or Tesco Momentum, primarily for their (I hope...) better additive package than the 'cooking' petrols. Does anybody know whether Momentum does have an enhanced additive package, or is it just 'cooking' fuel with an additive which does nothing more than raise the octane rating?

 

[merc85]

Our local Morrisons have had several bad batches of Petrol and Diesel , Our unit is just around the corner and we know plenty of people who have had different experiences. Perhaps its a coastal thing.

 

[Smiley]

It does sound like you have diesel bug. The clue is leaving an empty tank for a period of time - I believe that the bug (I think it is an algae) forms when there is condensation. That's the bad news. The good news is that it should not require replacement of the whole fuel system. The algae will have blocked the fuel filters and starved the engine of fuel. The cure is to remove the tank and drain / wash out and then rinse with the algae killer such as this:

Diesel Bug Treatment 100ml

Flush the fuel lines and replace the filter(s). Run the car with the bug killer in the diesel for a couple of tanks and change the fuel filters again.
The injectors should be fine as the filters should have done their job.
You may need to get the car recovered to an indi to do this job.

 

[johnsco]

"The injectors should be fine as the filters should have done their job."

I admire your optimism, Smiley.
I cannot believe that the fuel filter will have stopped all traces of algae and condensation.
Hi-tech injectors are incredibly-precision components, and are easily damaged.
I hope I'm wrong, but don't count on an easy-fix.

 

[BTB 500]

People have selective memories when it comes to supermarket fuel. Number of times I hear people referring to the wide ranging problem a few years ago where dozens of stations had contaminated fuels. They only seem to remember the Supermarket stations being affected, when in fact it was many different ones including Texaco, BP. Why, because the issue happened at the refinery which supplies both brand and supermarkets.

If you're talking about the big silicon contamination incident just over 10 years ago then that's not correct - only supermarket forecourts (specifically Tesco, Morrisons and Asda) were affected:

2007 United Kingdom petrol contamination - Wikipedia

 

[Smiley]

The reason I say this is because the algae forms a sludge which gradually blocks the filters - so no fuel gets through and the engine stops. I bought a diesel 124 that had not been used for a while and it had these symptoms. It took a while to find out what it was but after a thorough clean out and new filters it was absolutely fine. I appreciate that a 124 is not the same as a 2017 GLS but the point is that the algae blocks up the delivery of fuel to the injectors - it is not fine particles.
It is much more common in the marine world where I guess there is much more opportunity for condensation and damp to be present.
Lesson to me was never store diesel in a can as the algae could form in there over time and then when you put it in the tank.......

 

[Smiley]

I meant the reason I would be optimistic....

"The injectors should be fine as the filters should have done their job."

I admire your optimism, Smiley.
I cannot believe that the fuel filter will have stopped all traces of algae and condensation.
Hi-tech injectors are incredibly-precision components, and are easily damaged.
I hope I'm wrong, but don't count on an easy-fix.

 

[johnsco]

There is a world of difference between modern hi-tech injectors and some of the earlier types.
Particularly in the world of older commercial vehicles, the quality of the diesel fuel was very variable and it was often contaminated with water, sludge and other substances.
Diesel fuel is often described as "heavy oil".
There is a reason for this.
Even now, the British Standards allow for a significant degree of variation in the chemical composition of the fuels ..... as long as the cetain or octane requirement is complied with.