Council housing sell off 'will create ghettos'

[davidjpowell]

My friend built himself a four bedroom detached for about £60k, he did the electrics himself only. No mates rates either for the labour, so that £80k quote for a three bed seems very toppy?

Look at the links above. It ain't top heavy.

ETA Bet his rebuild insured cost is not £60k

 

[Scott_F]

My friend built himself a four bedroom detached for about £60k, he did the electrics himself only. No mates rates either for the labour, so that £80k quote for a three bed seems very toppy?

A caravan on a patch on concrete doesn't qualify as a detached house !

 

[Deleted member 37751]

A caravan on a patch on concrete doesn't qualify as a detached house !

It does round here!

 

[Peter DLM]

My good friend extending his house with the equivalent of a 3 bed semi, doing most of the work himself, and his costs are nearing 100k. The 2 car garage was £20k by itself!

 

[Charles Morgan]

A friend recently did a large extension complete with a large brick shed and a granny annexe at the bottom of the garden as well as sundry wall moving and re-plastering in the house. The quotes varied from around £60k to £200k!, all on the same basis.

 

[flango]

Just spoke to a mate of mine who has a construction company and among other things builds houses, he says average build cost of a pair of Semi's £88k +/- 5% not including land.

 

[developer]

Not so much on a UK gubberment procured project I would think. I've never heard of figures as low as £300 / m sq in the real world.

A report on the subject here http://www.gwsf.org.uk/uploads/April12/nbmreportweb.pdf

In summary, the projects and their works costs/m

are as follows:
Urban Project 1
104 unit General and Special Needs Housing - Flats £1,396/m

Urban Project 2
56 Mainstream and Particular Need Housing - 2 Storey Houses £1,513/m

Urban Project 3
30 unit General and Special Need Housing - Housing £1,195/m

Urban Project 4
42 unit General and Special Need Housing - Housing £979/m

A more dated article here 2009

Reference to build costs exceeding £100k per unit
Landlord in self-build pilot | News | Inside Housing

And reinstatement indices from RICS , for insurance purposes, while not the same, but connected, are £1400 sq/m pre war and £1300 sq/m post war - in the same ball park.

 

[davidjpowell]

Just spoke to a mate of mine who has a construction company and among other things builds houses, he says average build cost of a pair of Semi's £88k +/- 5% not including land.

Bet that's not his cost figure not including profit. I still think that's low and does not mesh with real work even including for quantum. Who's gonna build these for free?

 

[flango]

Bet that's not his cost figure not including profit. I still think that's low and does not mesh with real work even including for quantum. Who's gonna build these for free?

I'm not sure TBH, also I just checked the rebuild cost on my Insurance as I have a reasonable sized 3 bed semi, not sure on sq/m without checking the deeds but I have a decent kitchen /garage extension and a large conservatory. The cost of the rebuild obviously includes next door in case that gets destroyed in fire. Rebuild cost is stated as £121k. I am now starting to worry I could possibly be under insured but that number came from the surveyor in May this year.

 

[MOCAŠ]

I don't know if this is so much the case anymore. I think the people who own houses believe that everyone else wants to own them, because to not do so, would question the market and hence their own house value.

This is the nub of the issue - the preoccupation with house prices, which has been born of a vibrant housing market. What if, instead, houses rarely changed hands? What if there were established property owners who rented their houses out to the general public at affordable rents, regulated by the government but sufficient to ensure a decent income and profit for the landlord, who would also have a legal obligation to maintain his properties to a decent standard? Meanwhile, the tenants would benefit from assured tenancies (with the responsibilities that brings), and would be able to make reasonable modifications to the property provided they were approved by the landlord.

Perhaps we're too far down the home ownership road now for such a solution to be palatable to the British public, but I think this model avoids a lot of the pitfalls that come with the blind scrabble for universal home ownership.

 

[developer]

. Rebuild cost is stated as £121k. I am now starting to worry I could possibly be under insured but that number came from the surveyor in May this year.

If you look at the BCIS site you can have a free rebuild cost calculation, based upon property size.

I've just had a property surveyed and the rebuild cost was stated as £255K. This fits the £1400 sq/m advised above.

BCIS Public Rebuild Calculator

 

[flango]

This is the nub of the issue - the preoccupation with house prices, which has been born of a vibrant housing market. What if, instead, houses rarely changed hands? What if there were established property owners who rented their houses out to the general public at affordable rents, regulated by the government but sufficient to ensure a decent income and profit for the landlord, who would also have a legal obligation to maintain his properties to a decent standard? Meanwhile, the tenants would benefit from assured tenancies (with the responsibilities that brings), and would be able to make reasonable modifications to the property provided they were approved by the landlord.

Perhaps we're too far down the home ownership road now for such a solution to be palatable to the British public, but I think this model avoids a lot of the pitfalls that come with the blind scrabble for universal home ownership.

I think this is the most poignant on this thread. there are some countries in the world where they would think you were mad if you wanted to buy.

The problem with renting in this country is current UK housing law and AST ( Assured Shorthold tenancies) which is not conducive to people wanting to rent long term. This needs to be addressed and is also being looked at as part of the overall project, as is the buy to let situation and private landlords

 

[Scott_F]

What if there were established property owners who rented their houses out to the general public at affordable rents, regulated by the government but sufficient to ensure a decent income and profit for the landlord, who would also have a legal obligation to maintain his properties to a decent standard? Meanwhile, the tenants would benefit from assured tenancies (with the responsibilities that brings), and would be able to make reasonable modifications to the property provided they were approved by the landlord.

With the exception of landlord profit, you have succinctly described the role of local authorities in providing council housing.

What a pity that so much of it was flogged off on the cheap.

 

[MOCAŠ]

Although the oppoents of the plan are suggesting that it will result in ghettos of the poor, there is an equal risk that we will end up with ghettos of the rich. We're already seeing gated developments springing up across London, whose residents don't even know each other. These places are little more than boltholes, completely devoid of any community spirit.

Then there is the compound mentality, where people effectively turn their houses into impenetrable fortresses. Look at north end of Flood St in Chelsea, for instance - almost unrecognisable now from when the Rt Hon Margaret Thatcher, MP gathered her newly-formed cabinet for a photo call in the front garden of no. 19.

This isn't merely about guarding privacy - there is a real sense that people are living in fear, for no apparent reason. Yet it engenders an uncomfortable feeling, robbing the area of its humanity.

 

[flango]

If you look at the BCIS site you can have a free rebuild cost calculation, based upon property size.

I've just had a property surveyed and the rebuild cost was stated as £255K. This fits the £1400 sq/m advised above.

BCIS Public Rebuild Calculator

Doesn't work for mine I get the error area is too large for BCIS models

 

[MOCAŠ]

With the exception of landlord profit, you have succinctly described the role of local authorities in providing council housing.

What a pity that so much of it was flogged off on the cheap.

The difference is that council housing was/is rented out at heavily subsidised rents to the underprivileged. I believe this provision should remain, as a safety net, but I do not think there is any need for the government or local authorities to operate the entire housing market. Those with a healthy income should be able to afford to rent privately, provided those rents are not artificially inflated.

 

[flango]

The difference is that council housing was/is rented out at heavily subsidised rents to the underprivileged. I believe this provision should remain, as a safety net, but I do not think there is any need for the government or local authorities to operate the entire housing market. Those with a healthy income should be able to afford to rent privately, provided those rents are not artificially inflated.

You have just hit the nail on the head and there is a white paper on this very subject but would need substantial changes to housing law to get it through.

I know of instances where a couple live in a 3 bed council house, no kids, joint income of near £100K PA and pay £64 per week in rent. This is not what social housing was designed for

 

[finisterre]

85 sq m is now the average new build three bed semi, tiny, ours is 270 sqm. We are turning our housing stock into rabbit hutches. These new build houses are going to be cheap, budget buildings. Maybe even smaller. The idea appals me. We still benefit by the glory of Victorian water works, rail systems, the canals are thriving after a couple of centuries. Built to last. I feel that we are allowing our standards to slide, quality is second to quantity. Until I am assured that we are investing in the future I can't really support any plan that prioritises short term political headlines that lead to poor kids trying to do their homework in a shared five square meter bedroom.

 

[markjay]

The government-regulated rental scheme is appealing, but may be difficult to achieve for reasons more mundane than public mood.

If house prices in general go up, usually so do the rental prices. If private Landlords see their property increase in value, while they can't charge more in rent, many will be inclined to sell for a one-off windfall rather that carry-on with regular income from low rent.

The government will either have to forbid Landlords who join the scheme from selling, a condition that I suspect will drive away potential Landlords, or control the house market to ensure that property prices do not rise, which is a thorny issue that creates other complications.

So other than by owning the houses themselves, or subsidising private Landlords, I don't see how the government can ensure ample offering of guaranteed low cost rented accommodation.

 

[flango]

The article from the OP is only part of this story if the white paper goes through in it's entirety then there will be swathing changes to both Private landlords, housing associations and local councils and the renting scene will look a lot different to what it does today and not before time IMHO