• The Forums are now open to new registrations, adverts are also being de-tuned.

Cracked Alloy

Doe1000

Active Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
81
Car
A170, C220 CDI
Had some issue with a puncture last week. Just been out to get some tyres and the alloy had a huge crack. Not sure if this was the result of me driving 2 miles to get off the motorway or was cracked weeks before as it was constantly losing pressure.

Can the below be repaired?

damage alloy.jpg


And i am not sure if i have made a huge mistake. The size of the front alloy is 7.5j x 17H2 E36 and i believe the Rears to be 8.5 x 17h2 E34. The tire place didn't have any 245/40/17 and wanted to fit 225/50/17 to the rears. As i wasn't sure how this will affect my handling i settled for 225/45/17 all round.

Will this be a problem as the rears are sized different?
 
I did the same last week. I've taken mine to MyAlloys Bristol and they mend all sorts of damage. Mine is being straightened and the scuffs removed. I spoke to the man on reception and I feel confident that the wheel will be strong and good by Thursday.
 
Fwiw , I love having things fixed and hate buying new , but I would never trust that wheel with a weld.

I had one of my CLS wheels welded the other day , but that was a crack. What is in your photo is a split rather than a crack.

Those wheels aren't rare, I would just track down one on eBay or somewhere. Plenty around.
 
Good point. It is a big crack.
 
That's about the size of crack I had in my wheel, had it repaired in Bristol, that was a couple of years and another set of tyres ago, welding is normally stronger than the original material they say. When repaired by professional people, they do all sorts of testing before sending it out, including pressure testing.
 
...welding is normally stronger than the original material they say. When repaired by professional people, they do all sorts of testing before sending it out, including pressure testing.

'They' are wrong. VERY wrong when it comes to welding aluminium...

Welds in carbon steels can be a good match for the properties of the parent material or they can be harder (stronger) and more brittle if we're talking about a hardenable flavour of steel and cooling rates were excessive or the wrong flavour of filler metal was chosen*
With stainless steels the corrosion resistance can be ruined (local to the weld) very easily
With aluminium and it's alloys welding ALWAYS softens them in the HAZ (heat affected zone) regardless of skill or knowledge

Alloy wheels are virtually always heat treated after being cast, cast and flow formed or forged. Here's an article on the production of MB wheels that describes the process Production: the best quality from excellent suppliers - Following strict Mercedes-Benz guidelines | Daimler Global Media Site > Brands & Products > Mercedes-Benz Cars > Mercedes-Benz Passenger Cars > Special Topics
GK-AlSi7 is a partial designation that covers several flavours of aluminium, the actual alloy they're talking about is probably AlSi7Mg or a proprietary variation of it and the heat treatment process they're describing is T6 (solution annealed and artifically aged). Welding locally destroys heat treatment and, generalising, the best case scenario with something in the T6 temper is around 60% of the origional strength in the HAZ
Flow forming and forging both impart a 'grain structure' in the material that improves mechanical properties. Welding is, in effect, casting...

Pressure testing just tells you that the weld is air tight, nothing more. Dye penetrant inspection (DPI) will uncover welding flaws that are invisible to the naked eye but will only highlight flaws that break the surface. Underneath the surface there can be liquation cracks if the wrong flavour of filler wire was used or LOF (lack of fusion) defects, inclusions etc. Need something like X ray inspection or UT (ultra sonic testing) to find those. DPI is cheap and doesn't take long, X ray and UT inspection involves expensive gear and specialists i.e. puts repair costs up significantly

If the proffesional painter with a TIG says the repair will make the wheel as good as new or will be stronger than the origional they are either ignorant or lying. Repairs to wheels can work because everything is designed with a safety factor i.e. overbuilt. FWIW i'm a welder and fabricator that specialised in aluminium and exotics (read i weld more magnesium or titanium than carbon steel) and as a general rule don't touch wheels for the above reasons... no way for me to know what sort of safety factor the wheel was designed with so while i could physically repair the wheel in the OP easily and the penalty for getting it wrong is usually a tyre that'll go flat long before a crack has grown long enough for properly bad things to happen i wouldn't because there are too many unknowns

* For example with chromoly steels if the part is gonna be quenched and tempered after fabrication you need a matching filler wire if the weld will respond to heat treatment and pre/post heat is very necessary. Especially for say a butt weld in heavy wall pipe. If the part is made from normalised chromoly and won't be heat treated (tube chassis etc) then using a matching filler wire will result in welds that are significantly harder and more brittle than the base material. Mild steel filler is the correct choice for this application, an undermatch on paper but we're talking fillet welds on thin wall tube and provided the weld size is correct compensates for the softer mild steel resulting in a strong but still ductile part
 
Last edited:
I'm no welder, but I am a Level III non-destructive testing engineer.
For every 500 good welders of steel, there is probably one good welder of aluminium and its alloys.
We've X-rayed repairs to alloy wheels.
They may pass dye penetrant testing, but that will only detect cracks that are surface-breaking.
X-ray should detect sub-surface cracks or lack of fusion in the weld.

We've rejected alloy wheels that were cracked.
The owner has had them re-welded.
We've re-x-rayed them ..... They were still cracked.
 
IMO, it would be good to have hotrodder's post as a sticky at the top of this section under the title "Should I Have My Cracked Wheel Welded?".

It could save someone much pain and suffering.
 
I think i will listen to the words of wisdom and buy another set or one if i can find the exact same. Got to be cheaper and safer for my set anyway. Thanks
 
Hotrodder, that is a brilliant post, and one I will pinch and put the relevant bit's on a poster in my waiting room if that's OK ? :thumb:

I never advise / recommend repairing any alloy wheel crack or split. It might be cheaper than a new wheel, but from a safety point of view you really don't want to find out the welding wasn't too great at 75mph on the M25 with the family on board :eek: Just saying.......
 
ebay is a good source of used wheels. I would not like to rely on a weld at motorway speeds.
 
Some excellent, well informed feedback from hotrodder above, however there is no way of telling if a wheel purchased on Ebay has been previously repaired. Even if the seller states otherwise in good faith, unless he purchased them new then you cannot be sure they have not been repaired. When you consider the replacement cost of some wheels and the ease of damaging them then you can be sure there are a lot of repaired wheels going around.
I have never had wheels welded but I did have a couple of wheel rims straightened. The outer face of the wheels ran true but the inner flanges had multiple dents. The outfit who straightened told me that quality OEM wheels can usually be repaired once. They advised that previously repaired and cheaper Asian wheels generally fail (crack) when repair is attempted.
Their process involved heating the wheel to anneal the material then applying hydraulic force to straighten the wheel on a jig.
I also spoke to some other wheel repair vendors (not so local to me) and there really is nothing that some of them will not attempt to repair. Some of them use little more than a rosebud flame and a lump hammer on wooden drifts before they refinish the wheel. I also know some repair vendors use soldering processes such as Durafix to repair wheels.
At the end of the day, you pays your money and make your choice....
 
Hotrodder, that is a brilliant post, and one I will pinch and put the relevant bit's on a poster in my waiting room if that's OK ? :thumb:
Go for it, what i wrote is pretty basic (in the grand scheme of things) metallurgy and generalisations about what happens when welding flavours of metal other than basic low carbon steels
Something i didn't mention in that post is that some flavours of aluminium are less weldable than others and while AlSiMg are probably the most common flavours used for wheels AlSiCu is used too... while copper is a useful alloying element with aluminium aluMATTER*|*Aluminium*|*Wrought Aluminium Alloys*|*2xxx Series Alloys as the copper content goes up weldability goes down and many of the 2xxx series alloys are considered 'unweldable' with conventional processes as a result either because they will suffer solidifcation cracking or because their properties are totally destroyed by welding
O.Z. are one company that uses both AlSi7Mg (or proprietary variations on it possibly) and AlSi10Cu for cast wheels, the later only for one piece designs below 17" dia IIRC

I also spoke to some other wheel repair vendors (not so local to me) and there really is nothing that some of them will not attempt to repair.
That's when things get properly dodgy. With the type of damage that the more competant places will repair all that usually happens if/when it goes wrong is another crack that results in a slow puncture if it's not found sooner (service or MOT etc) before it's grown beyond the bead seat. As Johnsco said sometimes this'll happen because the repairer screwed up, othertimes it's often fresh cracks or existing cracks that were missed because they were too small to see without proper NDT which makes repairs uneconomic much of the time
 
That's when things get properly dodgy.

+1 Impossible to really know if re-finished Ebay wheel's have been subject to these kind of repairs. :thumb:
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom